Harry and his truth

[TrashyPanda]

Let’s try again folks!

the aftermath of Harry’s court appearance and what happens next

Interesting. Surely you’d be able to gauge whether family would likely agree in advance? Would Charles have likely caved if Queen deceased at time?

"Being on holiday with your dad & his girlfriend while knowing your mum is on holiday with her latest lover, is a shit situation for any child"

I don't believe Camilla was with them? Were they not at Balmoral with Charles (HMQ, Prince Philip, the Queen Mother - & maybe some cousins?)
I thought it was reported W&H didn't meet Camilla until a while after Diana died??

Probably all of those things, @Elior

FWIW I think he will ‘win’ & with good PR they can win friends & influence people again.

I think he blames the British press for much of his previous misery - invaded privacy, broken relationships, poor mental health.

And I think he's still lashing out because he and Meghan didn't get the exit deal they wanted from the RF. How differently things might have played out over the past 3.5 years if they'd been allowed the half-in, half-out deal they wanted.

Also hadn't Diana taken them on holiday with Dodi? Taking your kids away with your very new latest boyfriend is the kind of thing that would get you crucified on Mumsnet.

Actually Dianna didn’t meet Dodi until she and her sons were already out staying at Mohamed Al Fayed’s villa in the South of France. Mohammed basically ordered his son to come and join then quick smart and he (and his fiancée) did so. Dodi and Diana hit it off, the fiancée was swiftly dumped and after the boys went back to Balmoral for the rest of the summer holidays Diana spent another two periods with Dodi on the Al Fayed’s yacht. She was coming back to London to catch up with them again before school went back when Dodi decided to divert to spend an evening in Paris.

If Harry wanted to become a US citizen, would that mean he had to give up his titles or could he keep them?

It's not the best source, but there's a useful piece about this here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Emoluments_Clause

I'm no expert, but it seems that while the US can't itself grant titles of nobility, there's nothing to stop someone using those from another nation (though they won't necessarily mean anything in the US)

There also seem to be some extra resstrictions for those holding public office, but of course that doesn't apply to H&M

Fair enough I wasn't aware of that. I presumed she was around by then.

At least Charles didn't bring his girlfriend into the boys lives until much later. Unlike Diana.

Was Dodi the first boyfriend she introduced them to?

Meghan is a US citizen and she uses The Duchess of Sussex, so he'll be able to call himself whatever he likes. I'd be really surprised if he takes US citizenship though. He doesn't need to. He's Prince Harry. They aren't going to kick him out or make things hard for him. He can stay in the US as long as he likes as a visa holder of some kind.

So she didn't plan a holiday with her boyfriend?
My mistake.

And I can understand her taking Al Fayed up on his offer to host. She needed somewhere private with security and he offered her that.

As Serenster very clearly laid out, it wasn't really planned that the boys meet Dodi, and their "relationship" didn't develop until after the boys left (may have been a bit of overlap).

I don't believe the boys met Hasnat Khan, they did know Hewitt AFAIK, but I assume at the time didn't realise about the relationship.

I could be wrong, but I think Diana did try to keep her relationships away from the boys.

And to answer your question from earlier - she hadn't seen her sons for about a month before she died. I think she'd been out of the country most of that time?

I've been an expat myself once. I know how it feels wanting to be 'remembered' in circles I mixed in back home. However, I wasn't kitted out with a mansion upon arrival, I was living in a place where nobody spoke English and there were no other ex pats to mix with. I also missed home really badly and had extremely fond memories which returned me back fast!

He seems to have blocked out all the positive memories of thirty years of immense privilege and is only capable of picking out negative experiences. Is this being honest to himself?
It may be that he love-hates Britain and cannot let go even though he knows that it would be better for him to make a fresh start properly.

I don't understand how there was evidence form BT for William and kate's phones but not for Harry

I wondered the same, but then it was pointed out that W&K's case was against a different newspaper group

Personally I strongly suspect they were all doing the same, but don't imaagine MGN can be convicted because of what someone else was doing

Do you/we think it was unreasonable he didn’t get it? Knowing the fam, shouldn’t he have expected it? If Queen not alive, likelihood Charles to say yes’?

Thanks @MrsFinkelstein I've never before paid much attention to the details of that time.

I'm pondering them now, in terms of trying to understand what Harry experienced as a child and how that is driving his current behaviour.

And to answer your question from earlier - she hadn't seen her sons for about a month before she died. I think she'd been out of the country most of that time?

Yes - after their holiday together with Al Fayed Diana went on an anti-landmines trip (to I think, Serbia?), was briefly in the US, went to Rome for Gianni Versace’s funeral, and then spent about three weeks on yachts in the Med - twice on the Al Fayed’s and a week with her friend Rosa

And I can understand her taking Al Fayed up on his offer to host. She needed somewhere private with security and he offered her that.

She could have stayed anywhere with her sons and not been worried about security because her sons had their own 24/7 security protection from the Met no matter where they went.

Several of her friends told her it was a terrible idea as Al Fayed was not well-regarded, and they thought he would doubtless be looking for something in return for hosting her, but Diana was clearly liking the idea of being a bit rebellious.

thus far, their PR has been awful.

Did he ideally want a different ‘half in half out’ life in Africa, well beloved to him, with Chelsy. As he sees it this was scuppered & ruined by malignant forces whereas William was allowed to dally scot free with support with Catherine?

Indeed, but a chance to rebuild & reframe, this time with clear ‘evidence’ to support?

Thanks @Serenster I'm enjoying the detail of the context I didn't know.
I'm only 25years late to it!

I guess because they were in boarding school, and parents were divorced it wasn't unusual to not see a parent for 4 weeks?

If you board and only see parents in the holidays and then this is split it's a double whammy of limited time with parents, which I hadn't considered before.

In reality their time with either parent was very limited.

Well, hindsight is 20/20, but I think he and Meghan would've gone a lot more quietly and not been filled with outrage and a desire to hit back if some kind of compromise could've been reached, rather than just saying 'No' to everything they wanted.

Harry clearly feels that Charles, William and senior courtiers ganged up against him and I think much of the hatred and bile that he and Meghan have directed against the RF since is due to the sense of injustice they felt at basically being told 'Sure, you can leave, but you're on your own'.

Maybe I'm wrong, but his insistence in the Tom Bradby interview in Jan that he STILL thinks that the half-in, half-out model could work, seems to confirm that he's still sore about being denied it. It was, after all, their exit plan and it was blown out of the water, so all the shit they've done since then is them scrambling around and trying to find a way to support themselves and their fancy new lifestyle without their royal status, money and any kind of practical support. And it hasn't been good for them, or for the RF. Keep your friends close and your enemies closer and all that.

Because what has surprised me, as a parent, is how much of parenting is just about being physically present, providing continuity, stability and emotional support merely by being there day after day for my DC.

This is such a good point @maranella and one I think often overlooked in terms of what we say kids need.

I think he and Meghan would've gone a lot more quietly and not been filled with outrage and a desire to hit back if some kind of compromise could've been reached, rather than just saying 'No' to everything they wanted

but what they wanted was all the perks and none of the responsibilities.
and they wanted to use their status as royals to earn money.

a compromise wasn’t possible - nor should one have ever been on the table.

Half in and half out was clearly a disastrous attempt to openly monetise their status and set up a rival court. Well done to the queen for saying no to their offer to 'collaborate' with her.

I think I t’s quite likely that by this stage, having had some two years of working with Meghan and Harry as a formal couple, the Palace and Royal family might have formed a view that what dispensations might be workable for some of the other royal family members might not be workable here.