Just wandering...

[SweetTooth2]

What is it about H&M and/or the royals, that gets people so angry and worked up?

People being pretty hostile to each other on the royal threads these days?

There seem to be quite fierce emotions in defence of H&M and also attacking them.

What's it all about do you think? Why all the hostility on these boards on either side?

(Obviously loads of people not being hostile. I fully acknowledge that! Just wondering why some posters have so much emotion for or against, and why the hostility to those with differing opinions. What is being ignited or triggered in people?)

It's becoming increasingly more hostile on the RF boards. People taking sides and posting in an unkind way. Meanwhile the RF are blissfully unaware of all this.

Oh I don't know! I reckon if I was a royal I'd have a sneaky peek at Mumsnet every now and again!!

I think I might mean 'wonder'! Not 'wander'! Before anyone comments on the spelling :)

I think with the RF there's an element of 'we pay for them, so we have a right to criticise' that doesn't apply to other wealthy and famous individuals. So it feels a bit more personal when they complain about being famous (and not being wealthy enough!) - especially as they were given the option of having a lower profile.

Yes, I'd agree with that. I don't really have a problem with people holding their view of the RF or H&M passionately. But it seems that posters are attacking one another for having different opinions, in quite a personal and v hostile way. On AIBU you are quite prepared for the slating, but I think on here it gets a bit carried away sometimes and I was wondering what's fuel the aggression towards each other?

I was wondering what's fuel the aggression towards each other?

I think there's some research showing arguing on-line entrenches positions.

There's also seems to be some group identification going on and waggon circling and both "sides" feeling attacked.

I thought it would get better after the coronation but I think that was naive of me.

I think the UK has a weird superiority/inferiority type complex about the US and it really stings some people that Meghan saw really the best of the UK, had the most privilege and most comfortable life and chose not just to walk away from it but convince Harry to as well.

I feel it myself a bit when she talks about the racism in the UK, it's a bit like err Gary Tyler? Tamir Rice? George Floyd? But I recognise it's defensiveness on my part and she is entitled to her own opinion

@Grumpyfroghats I don't think harry needed much convincing. He's always said he hates his goldfish bowl life. Living as a royal family member is not as it appears on the surface I'm sure.

I wasn't saying I think this just that some people do.

Though I don't think he would have left totally of his own accord, he didn't seem interested in living abroad before

To answer the question. I think harry and Meghan are very divisive people and you really do love or dislike them. The lovers seem determined to condone everything they do with no criticism allowed and if you disagree they accuse you of racism which really get's peoples backs up.

@Grumpyfroghats Agree he wouldn't have made the move alone so Meghan did him a big favour. Neither are suited to the restrictions of royal life

As a follower of the Mumsnet RF page over the years I've noticed 2 or 3 posters who are determined to shut down all criticism of Harry and Meghan at any cost, resulting in quite a toxic dynamic.

Their favorite tactic seems to be to equate or dismiss any criticism of Meghan as racism, it's very strange

Have you only just sussed that out 😂😂😂.
If you call it out you're deleted for troll hunting.

You're quite right. They have very entrenched positions.

I think Harry and Meghan are polarising, and sometimes their supporters attack William and Kate as a sort of defence, so it gets a bit whipped up. It's the usual, though - a heady combination of anonymity and a keyboard.

Over the coronation weekend, there were some absolutely horrible threads about Camilla. Some really vile posts.

I think because it's how H&M rather than the fact they did so.

I think most people don't actually care they wanted a different life, but are fed up to the back teeth by the constant victim narrative being spun by two very privileged and wealthy individuals.

The whole issue is then made more complex by the issue of race (and M was treated in a racist way in some quarters) which makes some people feel that however they behave is inherently justified (even in situations where race is arguably not a factor).

Finally I think a lot of people find H's trashing of his family when they have no right of reply pretty shitty and obviously financially motivated.

The argument he needs $$ is fair enough, but the amount he and M need to be safe and live a reasonable lifestyle is very debatable.

The upshot is they both want an A list US based life and have been pretty ruthless in how they go about achieving it.

Other alternatives were available to them but that's the course they have charted.

That decision has come at cost to both their reputation and and the RF.

In answer to the OP's question, I think it's a combination of things: (1) the growing disparity between rich and poor really doesn't encourage the have-nots to value the RF these days (2) the RF aren't value for money. It's difficult to point to any tangible benefit they have in a world where many, many ordinary workers have to work very hard just to make ends meet (3) the passing of HMQ and crowning of tampon-gate Charles has ushered in a new era of ambivalence towards the idea of monarch and people just don't know how to handle it (4) this country hasn't had a disliked monarch in living memory of most people (5) we eat the news diet that the media feeds us, and pretty clothes and snapshots of a lovely life sell more papers than yet more bad news of wars, climate catastrophe, violence, right-wing extremism etc (6) Harry & Meghan come across as being in a downward spiral and people generally find watching a slow-motion car crash irresistible (7) culturally, whether it's because of social media or just something in the air, people are entrenched in their binary positions online. There's no space for nuance in online discourse (plenty in the real world).

Yes, I’ve noticed that too.

and the real irony is that there is prejudice that is enshrined in law - namely that a member of the royal family can’t be Catholic and remain in the line of succession.

One of the H&M defenders was incredibly racist the other day.

Those are good points, @sheworemellowyellow . No space for nuance. It's like the Brexit and other debates - just declines into simplistic and often offensive posts and silly name calling. Calling Charles the tampon king is awful - that was a private conversation, illegally tapped, and an example of how crude it gets, and unkind on all sides.
It's just deteriorated into a slanging match at times.

Because anyone with a brain could see that Meghan is a grifter and Harry is a spiteful, bitter and jealous man. Their supporters must know this and argue for the sake of it. Luckily a lot of them have gone awol since the ‘chase’ and the hotel revelations.

Interesting one OP! I think it's because H&M raise questions of values and intense feelings. Some feel that she has been bullied and that the bullying has been racist (true, some of it clearly was). Watching some one being racially attacked is very intense, emotive and hurtful but I expect that this is amplified for people of colour or people from minority communities. This brings emotive posts. Others see that the couple have hidden behind these hugely important issues to push forward an agenda based in victimhood. This leads to clashing posts where some posters are horrified at the racism and other posters deny this and point out other factors influencing behaviour. Denial of racism (from the perspective of some posters) is extremely upsetting and leads to claims of racist posts. Being accused of racism is extremely upsetting and leads to heated denials. This goes on a downward spiral with all posters angry and offended. Names are remembered and this is carried forward to future threads.

Aside from racism, they also raise questions of financial entitlement in an era where many are struggling. It also emotional to many to feel that PH lived and served the UK and saw it's best qualities, but was easily convinced that the people of the US were better. That's not to say that he genuinely felt like this or that there is any sense to this, but choosing to leave a country and live in another inevitably raises feelings of what was wrong and what does one place have that another does not.

It’s frustrating that Every Single Thing H&M do is defended by some on here. And when they struggle for a defence they either start personal attacks or shout about how people “hate” the pair. Or bring up Andrew (who nobody likes) or something about William or Kate.

The fact is that I don’t believe most anti posters give much thought to M&H beyond thinking they’re annoying entitled hypocrites at worst and good entertainment at best. Whereas a lot of the pro people seem to be spend hours trawling the internet gathering information.

I suppose if you’re a real fan of someone, be it a pop star or celebrity or a football team, it can go beyond a hobby and become an unhealthy obsession. Social media of course makes it easy to find your people, and to go into battle on your idol’s behalf.

Yes, a couple of the more prolific and entrenched had posts deleted the other day, and seem to have now disappeared.