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The royal family

Charles too busy to see Harry

445 replies

runner2023 · 28/03/2023 09:18

Really...?

He has had his State visit to France cancelled, so two days freed up.

Some families do not learn.

OP posts:
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MarshaMelrose · 02/04/2023 17:52

What he's saying is that he gave evidence against NGN. A paralegal has cut and paste the evidence he gave about that case, I guess making it sound like he did it for ANL. They then put his signature on it electronically.
He says he never made that statement and he never signed it. He says for a statement of that magnitude, he would have signed it in person. Plus he can prove he was not available to sign the document on that day - which would be a bit of a coincidence. 😏

On his website he says he's assisted Elton John, Liz Hurley, Prince Harry, Simon Hughes amongst many others. And he's got ongoing cases in 2023. Would it be this one?

It all has a stinky smell of poo about it. I can't wait for the case to start - if it does.

Snorlaxing · 02/04/2023 17:57

Whaeanui · 02/04/2023 17:34

@Snorlaxing @Howsimplywonderful from what I understand, the man, burrows that’s retracted his ‘statement’, it’s what he said to a bbc journalist on a programme. But it absolutely doesn’t just rest on his involvement, that would be crazy because it would just be his word. They have to have material evidence. I don’t think the firms involved would take on these claimants without real evidence, you can search up Baroness Lawrence’s statement in the filing, she says evidence she has seen and she’s a smart woman who I trust. She feels personally very betrayed because she had thought she had a good relationship with Daily Mail, remember they have prided themselves on that and her statement is quite damning. The time limit is likely the most challenging part, it rests on whether the judge believes each claimant when they say they learnt of it, not when the crime occurred. To me, the ANL barrister seemed to try and push the defence that we knew about hacking longer than 6 years ago and the inquiry was 2011, so they should have checked to see if ANL had done anything then. Which is a weak argument considering Paul Dacre’s statement to the inquiry. I reckon you’ll see some claims dismissed and not allowed to proceed, and some allowed. I can’t see them getting away with it completely… but it has more or less happened before with others- The Sun hasn’t gone to trial yet but has paid off lots of people who couldn’t afford to carry on.

That makes sense. Of course the circumstances differ for each claimant and some many win while others may not have a case unless other evidence comes to light.
I've obviously never been phone hacked but I did wonder how people were supposed to know which publication was responsible if they didn't publish new info that they learned.

TrashyPanda · 02/04/2023 17:57

MarshaMelrose · 02/04/2023 17:29

Now, you're being silly. 🙄 I never said he shouldn't get on a plane. But if he's telling other people to reduce their number of flights, surely he'd just attend the court case online if he wasn't needed there in person. Just more hypocrisy.

You have to remember that by attending in person, he gets attention from the media. He has to be visible to be relevant and he has to be relevant to keep the dollars rolling in.

StormzyinaTCup · 02/04/2023 17:59

Its interesting reading people’s thought on this.

from what I understand, the man, burrows that’s retracted his ‘statement’,

But he hasn’t retracted his statement has he? As I understand it Burrows is saying that what they are using as his statement isn’t what he said or signed.

…But it absolutely doesn’t just rest on his involvement, that would be crazy because it would just be his word.

Of course no, however, would there be sufficient evidence to bring it to a hearing/trial without Burrows statement? Also isn’t there an issue of using evidence from the Levenson enquiry?

StormzyinaTCup · 02/04/2023 18:01

It all has a stinky smell of poo about it. I can't wait for the case to start - if it does.

👍🏻Me too.

MarshaMelrose · 02/04/2023 18:02

Baroness Lawrence’s statement in the filing, she says evidence she has seen and she’s a smart woman who I trust.

The evidence that she saw was just the signed statement of Gavin Burrowes. Which he now states he never wrote or signed. I think that's true for all of them except Simon Hughes.

StormzyinaTCup · 02/04/2023 18:07

MarshaMelrose · 02/04/2023 18:02

Baroness Lawrence’s statement in the filing, she says evidence she has seen and she’s a smart woman who I trust.

The evidence that she saw was just the signed statement of Gavin Burrowes. Which he now states he never wrote or signed. I think that's true for all of them except Simon Hughes.

This is key I think Marsha
If people have been led to bring a group action based on seeing just Burrows statement and the statement turns out to have been tampered with then that’s pretty big.

Roussette · 02/04/2023 18:09

MarshaMelrose · 02/04/2023 17:29

Now, you're being silly. 🙄 I never said he shouldn't get on a plane. But if he's telling other people to reduce their number of flights, surely he'd just attend the court case online if he wasn't needed there in person. Just more hypocrisy.

How many times does it have to be said... he showed up with 5 of the 7 claimants as a show of force to highlight the case. You cannot say he should not get on a flight to do this and it's hypocritical. It would be hypocritical if he couldn't be arsed to turn up with the rest of the well known people. You just use this as a means to criticise him... amazing... he took a commercial flight with other passengers but he should not have done. What the hell does it matter, the flight would be going anyway!!!

I am amazed you seem OK with the illegal practices that have gone on and you are not behind ALL of the claimants.
I am.

MarshaMelrose · 02/04/2023 18:09

TrashyPanda · 02/04/2023 17:57

You have to remember that by attending in person, he gets attention from the media. He has to be visible to be relevant and he has to be relevant to keep the dollars rolling in.

Exactly. It was a smelly few days. Poo from Burrows and rank hypocrisy from Harry.

Roussette · 02/04/2023 18:13

MarshaMelrose · 02/04/2023 18:09

Exactly. It was a smelly few days. Poo from Burrows and rank hypocrisy from Harry.

What hypocrisy? Leaving aside the ridiculous plane thing.

Whaeanui · 02/04/2023 18:15

The evidence that she saw was just the signed statement of Gavin Burrowes.

Can you show me or point me to where this was said in court? I haven’t read that.

Whaeanui · 02/04/2023 18:16

I’m not understanding why Harry has to go into hiding and never be seen?

Whaeanui · 02/04/2023 18:24

I have copied a reporting, or parts of, of the preliminary hearing which explains my thinking re evidence not just being 1 man’s statement:
*Responding to the claimants’ assertion that they were only able to bring the case once there was enough evidence to do so, counsel for Associated, Adrian Beltrami KC, found himself insisting at some length that they had grounds to be suspicious of his client years and years ago.
While reminding the court that Associated denied all the allegations against it, he took the judge through a catalogue of evidence, some of it from as long ago as the early 2000s, which he said might reasonably have given the claimants grounds to sue at a far earlier date.
Even as senior Associated executives told the Leveson Inquiry of 2011-12 that they had conducted internal investigations and knew for certain there had been no voicemail hacking, Mr Beltrami pointed out, the claimants – some of whom have already sued other papers for hacking – might have paid attention to numerous published claims and insinuations that Mail and Mail on Sunday journalists had broken the law.

This is a preliminary hearing, not a trial, and the Mail, or rather its owner Associated Newspapers Ltd, has been asking the court to strike out parts of the claims against it – made by Sir Elton John, Prince Harry, Baroness Doreen Lawrence and four others – on the grounds that they rely on documents it believes should be legally confidential.
These documents, referred to in court as ‘the ledgers’, were compiled by Associated itself and submitted to the 2011-12 Leveson Inquiry into press standards. They give a detailed picture of the dealings that the Mail and Mail on Sunday had with private investigators from 2005 until 2007 or later.

They name several private investigators as well as numerous journalists who commissioned work from them or who received the products of their work, and they also identify sums of money paid by the newspapers. Such evidence is obviously relevant to the cases of each of the seven complainants, who allege that the newspapers used private investigators to invade their privacy illegally.

Associated argues that because the ledgers were submitted to the inquiry on a promise of confidentiality confirmed by one or more legal ‘restriction orders’, and because they were never released to the public by the inquiry, the claimants should not be allowed to rely on them in their claim.

One problem with this is that significant parts of the ledgers have already been published. Acquired by an investigative journalist in 2017, they provided a basis for a number of articles published by an online media organisation which, the court has ordered, may not be named at this stage. That is how they came to the notice of the claimants*

Whaeanui · 02/04/2023 18:25

Also FIY some aspects were prevented from being reported on, including names of 73 journos

MarshaMelrose · 02/04/2023 18:25

Roussette · 02/04/2023 18:09

How many times does it have to be said... he showed up with 5 of the 7 claimants as a show of force to highlight the case. You cannot say he should not get on a flight to do this and it's hypocritical. It would be hypocritical if he couldn't be arsed to turn up with the rest of the well known people. You just use this as a means to criticise him... amazing... he took a commercial flight with other passengers but he should not have done. What the hell does it matter, the flight would be going anyway!!!

I am amazed you seem OK with the illegal practices that have gone on and you are not behind ALL of the claimants.
I am.

Actually I can say it's hypocritical for him to tell hard working people not to fly on holiday whilst he takes a needless trip. His presence made no difference as to whether the court case went ahead or not. All those holiday makers fly commercial and he's still saying they should take less flights. Why does that not apply to him?

It absolutely would not have been hypocritical to attend into the court remotely from the US. It actually would be showing that he stood by what he preached to the rest of us. Clearly though, it's one rule for Harry, one rule for the rest of us.

I have said on this RF board many, many times, that invasion of people privacy is wrong and wrongdoers, whether they be companies or individuals, should be punished for it. Anyone who has had their privacy invaded deserves compensation. That includes Harry for having his phone hacked and private conversations put in newspapers. It includes Catherine who was spied on whilst on private property and had naked photos splashed across magazines and the Internet. And it includes William who had his personal conversations and his private medical information published in a book. By Harry who is complaining that he had his private conversations with his brother revealed in a newspaper. So it's OK for Harry to repeat private convos but not for Harry to have his private convos repeated. Now, what's the word for that? Oh yes. Hypocrital.

StormzyinaTCup · 02/04/2023 18:34

Thanks for that @Whaeanui
The last two paragraphs are interesting? I wonder who the person was that had access to the ledgers, who the investigative journalist was and what online media organisation partially published.

MarshaMelrose · 02/04/2023 18:36

What I don't understand is why the defendants are suing using Burrows statement as evidence without their legal teams speaking to him. I used to collect witness testimony and I'd always go through and clarify what was being said. Who takes a court case without speaking to all the witnesses? And Burrows said the paralegal had put the statement together. The paralegal working for which firm?
So many questions. I hope the judge let's it go ahead. It'll be so interesting to see Burrows wriggling on the hook.

Roussette · 02/04/2023 18:37

I honestly think Marsha if all you can criticise him for is taking a seat on a scheduled plane, he's doing alright.

I find the criticism beyond ridiculous so I will leave it there. We are not going to agree.

I am glad he came and stood with the other claimants, well done him for doing this.

Roussette · 02/04/2023 18:40

I just know without fail if he'd just done a video link or not come, he would be criticised endlessly on MN. Because that is what happens.

It would be post after post about how he couldn't be bothered, how he left the others to carry the can, how he wasn't taking the case seriously, how dare he not turn up.
I've seen it all before!

StormzyinaTCup · 02/04/2023 18:49

MarshaMelrose · 02/04/2023 18:36

What I don't understand is why the defendants are suing using Burrows statement as evidence without their legal teams speaking to him. I used to collect witness testimony and I'd always go through and clarify what was being said. Who takes a court case without speaking to all the witnesses? And Burrows said the paralegal had put the statement together. The paralegal working for which firm?
So many questions. I hope the judge let's it go ahead. It'll be so interesting to see Burrows wriggling on the hook.

It’s odd, this type of case is David Sherborne’s bread and butter so I can’t believe he hasn’t done a ‘belt and braces’ on this and I don’t suppose ANL’s solicitors are

your little local high street firm either.

Certainly seems that something smells a bit ‘off’ but I can’t tell which direction the smell is coming from. Time will tell I suppose.

Whaeanui · 02/04/2023 19:10

From the Guardian-
Their cases rely on evidence from other private investigators, but Burrows’ original witness statement makes some of the more lurid claims

Whaeanui · 02/04/2023 19:14

So it's OK for Harry to repeat private convos but not for Harry to have his private convos repeated.

This is a particularly ludicrous comparison. Obtaining or listening in to a conversation, accessing medical and financial records that don’t belong you, via illegal means, is not the same as writing a book about your life, which thousands do, and including conversations you participated in. Ridiculous.

Coxspurplepippin · 02/04/2023 19:22

'is not the same as writing a book about your life, which thousands do, and including conversations you participated in.'

Do you think Harry discussed William's circumcision and baldness with his brother, or do you think he just wrote about it in his book regardless. What actual part in Harry's life did those two things play? What about their private conversations invoking their mother's memory? Ripe for publication? It's little wonder no-one appears to be interested in speaking to him beyond the state of the weather and what they had for breakfast.

Roussette · 02/04/2023 19:27

It's little wonder no-one appears to be interested in speaking to him beyond the state of the weather and what they had for breakfast.

Who is 'no one'? That obviously is not true. They have friends, they have a life, in fact Harry stayed with friends when he was over with the court case.

Coxspurplepippin · 02/04/2023 19:35

Considering the thread is about Charles I would have thought it obvious the comment referred to close members of his UK family. You know, the ones he's not paid them the courtesy of observing their privacy.