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The royal family

Just finished 'Spare'...

1000 replies

HerReputationMadeItDifficultToProceed · 14/01/2023 22:02

… and I encourage anyone who’s even vaguely interested in this story to give it a read. Especially if what’s been leaked has made you at all angry, because I think in context everything makes a lot of sense.

I wasn’t a Harry and Meghan hater before reading this, but I wasn’t a fan girl either. Like many Brits, I find a lot of Americans- especially West Coast Americans- quite irritating and Meghan firmly falls into that camp for me. I’m sure she’s nice enough, but she’s very American and very perky and much like Wednesday Addams, I don’t do perky. However, I suspect that her intentions and generally good and that like most of us she’s got good and bad qualities. She’s clearly ambitious and I think that she probably initially dated Harry based on that ambition and on getting a platform, although I think that she genuinely loves him now.

The ghost writer has done a great job at capturing Harry’s personality I think; he comes across as introspective and thoughtful but funny and bright.

I think that Harry has a good soul; I think that he’s kind and has had a hard time of it growing up. I also think he’s a bit clueless and naive and has been in a bubble, but I think he acknowledges that and wants to understand and change. Undoubtedly losing his mother at the age he was had more of an outward impact on him than it had on William. He’s also been a victim of his dad’s wishywashy parenting. It sounds like- and looks like to me from my vantage point as a normal citizen who knows bugger all except what I’ve seen in the media- that Charles has been there for his kids to an extent, but not in a hands on or especially useful way. It also seems clear that Charles has always put Camilla first. From almost the moment Diana died it seems that he wanted, above everything else, to rehabilitate Camilla’s image so that they could marry. I think that he put that above being a father and the way Harry writes about their relationship makes that clear too.

I also think that it’s suited the palace to portray Harry as dimwitted and feckless to show William in a better light and that Harry has every right to be angry about that and not want to play that game anymore (and to call it out now). Especially as it’s obvious that the palace haven’t kept up their side of the bargain and protected Harry from the media in return.

I also think that the media have treated H and M poorly and it’s clearly the case that the palace has used them and news stories about them to divert from other newsworthy problems… certainly Prince Andrew, perhaps William’s affair/s. Is Harry overly jumpy about the media and the paparazzi in particular? Yes, of course. Who wouldn’t be with his background. But they’ve also obviously been hounded and harassed.

I do think that Harry is on a journey that he isn’t at the end of yet, but I think that he realises that too. I think that he was always going to leave the royal family and that Meghan didn’t cause what’s happened, she was just the catalyst for it. I think that he’s been scapegoated and an afterthought within his nuclear family and I don’t blame him for being angry. I think that he means well and is essentially good. And I don’t think that anyone who’s read the whole book would be able to disagree.

More than anything I think it’s clear that the British Royal Family is no longer fit for purpose; the way they live, bring up their children, pay their members for work and demand unrealistic levels of protocol and formality is no longer working in the 21st century. These people need purpose and lives beyond the crown and those on the edges of the heir shouldn’t have to live their lives in service of the their. Realistically H and M could have worked as royals and had private interests, the RF chose not to bend to help them live fulfilling lives because of its own, outdated reasons.

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Roussette · 15/01/2023 22:26

Mirabai · 15/01/2023 22:25

I wonder if we’ve met.

I worked for Independent TV and for BBC at one point. I wonder!

I also worked with David Attenborough on the very first series of Wildlife on One. Lovely bloke!

Heck those were the days!

HeddaGarbled · 15/01/2023 22:28

Offices are leaky.

Remember Boris’s chatty rat? Most of what happens in Downing St ends up in the Times.

Ohnonevermind · 15/01/2023 22:28

My daughter had to write to a person she admired recently and wrote to David Attenborough. She received a nice letter in reply.

he is a man to be admired.

Roussette · 15/01/2023 22:29

Ohnonevermind · 15/01/2023 22:28

My daughter had to write to a person she admired recently and wrote to David Attenborough. She received a nice letter in reply.

he is a man to be admired.

Aww that's lovely to hear. He's stilll nice then! He was very patient with me Grin

Mirabai · 15/01/2023 22:30

Roussette · 15/01/2023 22:26

I worked for Independent TV and for BBC at one point. I wonder!

I also worked with David Attenborough on the very first series of Wildlife on One. Lovely bloke!

Heck those were the days!

I started out in print journalism and later moved into BBC documentaries.

Roussette · 15/01/2023 22:31

Mirabai · 15/01/2023 22:30

I started out in print journalism and later moved into BBC documentaries.

I have great memories of those days Smile

Sorry to derail everyone!

Mirabai · 15/01/2023 22:35

Roussette · 15/01/2023 22:31

I have great memories of those days Smile

Sorry to derail everyone!

Don’t mind us…

RegainingTheWill2023 · 15/01/2023 22:39

@Mirabai or @Roussette is there an agreed code? I mean when papers use "palace sources" " sources close to the palace" or "sources"etc.?

Ohnonevermind · 15/01/2023 22:39

I loved the book - the divine feud - about Bette Davis and Joan Crawford culminating in whatever happened to baby Jane.

Might be a good book for those who enjoyed Spare

Bette And Joan: THE DIVINE FEUD amzn.eu/d/aGDtNTz

Mirabai · 15/01/2023 22:50

RegainingTheWill2023 · 15/01/2023 22:39

@Mirabai or @Roussette is there an agreed code? I mean when papers use "palace sources" " sources close to the palace" or "sources"etc.?

Any of those but they also use individual hacks and “experts” who will express their opinion that is really the opinion the palace wants to get out there. Then it doesn’t appear to come from a source too close to them.

RegainingTheWill2023 · 15/01/2023 22:57

Mirabai · 15/01/2023 22:50

Any of those but they also use individual hacks and “experts” who will express their opinion that is really the opinion the palace wants to get out there. Then it doesn’t appear to come from a source too close to them.

Thanks.
Presumably the loose nature of the way they attribute sources allows editors to follow their own agenda? So not just being led by the Palace.

Roussette · 15/01/2023 22:59

As far as I know, it's named in the media as..
Sources
Royal sources
Kensington Palace says
Etc

KP makes it more official

And then there's Nicholas Witchell lol

RegainingTheWill2023 · 15/01/2023 23:03

And then there's Nicholas Witchell lol Grin

Blossomtoes · 15/01/2023 23:05

Ah yes, the less than fragrant Nicholas. Time he was retired.

babsanderson · 15/01/2023 23:07

Charles said he hated Nicholas and suddenly all the Royalists hate him too.
You are all such sheep.

babsanderson · 15/01/2023 23:07

And I think it is pretty low calling for someone doing their job to be sacked for no real reason.

Blossomtoes · 15/01/2023 23:16

First of all Roussette is about as far from a royalist as you can get. And second Nicholas is about 120 and I’m afraid he’s going to keel over any minute. Time to make way for some younger blood.

Blossomtoes · 15/01/2023 23:17

Oh fuck! He’s the same age as me! He looks a good 20 years older though.

clyspa · 16/01/2023 00:04

No I do not know that babsanderson and nor do you

babsanderson · 16/01/2023 00:13

@clyspa What do I not know? Charles was recorded saying he hated him.

MeghanAndTheSeals · 16/01/2023 02:05

Roussette · 15/01/2023 17:24

Even I can't sit through the whole thing again lol

Can’t say I blame you! Just to confirm that his glass was definitely refilled, pretty sure he asked for the top-up. Not that I’m making anything of it - I’ve definitely had more of the vile stuff during a night out years ago 🤣

MeghanAndTheSeals · 16/01/2023 02:34

Apologies, I can see the discussion moved on. It was the tequila that reeled me in!

Ohgodthepain · 16/01/2023 04:30

If they all behaved properly then there would be no stories to leak , at least nothing that would cause the sort of ructions going on at the moment.

fruitstick · 16/01/2023 06:48

@Eyerollcentral anti-depressants are regularly given for grief, particularly in the early stages when it is physically and mentally debilitating.

It is not the case that 'proper depression' that needs AD exists in a vacuum with no direct cause.

I have extensive personal experience of grief, trauma and PTSD. Harry's account rings true to me.

It certainly does not follow that he must also have a condition such as BPD.

fruitstick · 16/01/2023 06:52

@Eyerollcentral saying that your brother, who also suffered a traumatic childhood loss, would benefit from therapy is not the slur you think it is.

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