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The royal family

Just finished 'Spare'...

1000 replies

HerReputationMadeItDifficultToProceed · 14/01/2023 22:02

… and I encourage anyone who’s even vaguely interested in this story to give it a read. Especially if what’s been leaked has made you at all angry, because I think in context everything makes a lot of sense.

I wasn’t a Harry and Meghan hater before reading this, but I wasn’t a fan girl either. Like many Brits, I find a lot of Americans- especially West Coast Americans- quite irritating and Meghan firmly falls into that camp for me. I’m sure she’s nice enough, but she’s very American and very perky and much like Wednesday Addams, I don’t do perky. However, I suspect that her intentions and generally good and that like most of us she’s got good and bad qualities. She’s clearly ambitious and I think that she probably initially dated Harry based on that ambition and on getting a platform, although I think that she genuinely loves him now.

The ghost writer has done a great job at capturing Harry’s personality I think; he comes across as introspective and thoughtful but funny and bright.

I think that Harry has a good soul; I think that he’s kind and has had a hard time of it growing up. I also think he’s a bit clueless and naive and has been in a bubble, but I think he acknowledges that and wants to understand and change. Undoubtedly losing his mother at the age he was had more of an outward impact on him than it had on William. He’s also been a victim of his dad’s wishywashy parenting. It sounds like- and looks like to me from my vantage point as a normal citizen who knows bugger all except what I’ve seen in the media- that Charles has been there for his kids to an extent, but not in a hands on or especially useful way. It also seems clear that Charles has always put Camilla first. From almost the moment Diana died it seems that he wanted, above everything else, to rehabilitate Camilla’s image so that they could marry. I think that he put that above being a father and the way Harry writes about their relationship makes that clear too.

I also think that it’s suited the palace to portray Harry as dimwitted and feckless to show William in a better light and that Harry has every right to be angry about that and not want to play that game anymore (and to call it out now). Especially as it’s obvious that the palace haven’t kept up their side of the bargain and protected Harry from the media in return.

I also think that the media have treated H and M poorly and it’s clearly the case that the palace has used them and news stories about them to divert from other newsworthy problems… certainly Prince Andrew, perhaps William’s affair/s. Is Harry overly jumpy about the media and the paparazzi in particular? Yes, of course. Who wouldn’t be with his background. But they’ve also obviously been hounded and harassed.

I do think that Harry is on a journey that he isn’t at the end of yet, but I think that he realises that too. I think that he was always going to leave the royal family and that Meghan didn’t cause what’s happened, she was just the catalyst for it. I think that he’s been scapegoated and an afterthought within his nuclear family and I don’t blame him for being angry. I think that he means well and is essentially good. And I don’t think that anyone who’s read the whole book would be able to disagree.

More than anything I think it’s clear that the British Royal Family is no longer fit for purpose; the way they live, bring up their children, pay their members for work and demand unrealistic levels of protocol and formality is no longer working in the 21st century. These people need purpose and lives beyond the crown and those on the edges of the heir shouldn’t have to live their lives in service of the their. Realistically H and M could have worked as royals and had private interests, the RF chose not to bend to help them live fulfilling lives because of its own, outdated reasons.

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CocoFifi · 16/01/2023 08:38

Do you not think the Palace has been briefing about them for years. At least Harry is doing it his own name, rather than “sources” from the palace and twisted by the media

Crabo · 16/01/2023 08:54

CocoFifi · 16/01/2023 08:38

Do you not think the Palace has been briefing about them for years. At least Harry is doing it his own name, rather than “sources” from the palace and twisted by the media

Funny then all the journalists who have been talked to have denied the Queen ever briefing against members of her family. It’s something she didn’t do. The only ‘briefing’ they got was ‘recollections vary’. I suppose that is what Harry’s paranoid mind considers ‘years of briefings!

fruitstick · 16/01/2023 08:55

Well they would say that wouldn't they.

Morestrangethings · 16/01/2023 09:10

Ohnonevermind · 15/01/2023 22:28

My daughter had to write to a person she admired recently and wrote to David Attenborough. She received a nice letter in reply.

he is a man to be admired.

My niece wrote to him when she was about 8 years old. She loved his documentaries. And he wrote a lovely letter in reply. My niece was so excited. My sister had it framed for my niece. I was very impressed with him because of this. I’ve heard rumours that he can be difficult to work with, but I find that really hard to believe. Taking the time to hand write replies to the kids who watch his show is a lovely thing for him to do.

kirinm · 16/01/2023 09:20

@Crabo can you envisage a situation where it might be in the interests of journalists to lie? Like, never getting a story again, trying to make H&M look like paranoid liars. It isn't hard to see that they have a vested interested here.

Morestrangethings · 16/01/2023 09:21

Eyerollcentral · 15/01/2023 22:01

It would be really irresponsible to say we think harry has for example bi polar disorder or any other condition. The media then would be speculating about that. The only person who can diagnose mental illness is a psychiatrist. Even if there was a diagnosis it would be a complete breach of confidentiality to release that. These points are ludicrous. Harry has already said he has mental health problems. The determination of some on this thread to make this a slur to discredit harry rather than his own honest opinion reflects their own deeply offensive views on mental illness. But at least you’ve managed to disrupt a completely reasonable discussion about Harry’s book, so that’s still a win for you guys in your own minds isn’t it👍🏻

I agree eyerollcentral, Harry has been very upfront with his mental health problems. To call him crazy and mad is so unfair. People are using his admission of mental health problems to be dismissive of him. I think they see his admission as a weakness, when actually it’s a strength.

No ethical psychiatrist would try to diagnose him from what they’ve seen on the screen or what is in his book. They just don’t do that. So anyone saying he has a particular mental illness is just not to be believed. Literally.

HeddaGarbled · 16/01/2023 09:41

Do you not think the Palace has been briefing about them for years

This does seem to be the received wisdom now, but I don’t understand it. The theory seems to be that it’s to deflect attention from stories about other members of the family, but I can’t see why the Mail, for example, would publish a story about Meghan’s copper bath or avocado or whatever, if they had a juicier story about William having an affair or whatever.

Stories have definitely been leaked: Tiaragate and the bridesmaid dress row, for example. But isn’t it more likely that the leaks came from multiple sources, other people who were there or heard about it second or third hand. No doubt reporter’s cash finds it’s way into the hands of staff and their friends and families sometimes. The Rebecca Vardy case shows us how these things work.

Shelefttheweb · 16/01/2023 09:59

’Briefing against them’ could mean putting out press releases about the Queen’s schedule which meant H+Ms pet project didn’t get publicity?

fruitstick · 16/01/2023 10:33

Shelefttheweb · 16/01/2023 09:59

’Briefing against them’ could mean putting out press releases about the Queen’s schedule which meant H+Ms pet project didn’t get publicity?

There's a bit in the book where Kate was told not to use a tennis racquet on a visit to a tennis camp because those photos would overshadow photos of Camilla at a different event.

Shelefttheweb · 16/01/2023 10:50

fruitstick · 16/01/2023 10:33

There's a bit in the book where Kate was told not to use a tennis racquet on a visit to a tennis camp because those photos would overshadow photos of Camilla at a different event.

I can’t get wound up by that. If they were both working then the head of the firm should be able to decide on the priorities for publicity just as any other business would.

bakalava · 16/01/2023 11:00

I'm sure that Kate never threw herself on the ground in a tantrum screaming "Mummy, I want to play with the waquet!!!!!!!" "I need therapy and I'm so going to tell everyone about it in my autobiography one day!"

ReneBumsWombats · 16/01/2023 11:01

bakalava · 16/01/2023 11:00

I'm sure that Kate never threw herself on the ground in a tantrum screaming "Mummy, I want to play with the waquet!!!!!!!" "I need therapy and I'm so going to tell everyone about it in my autobiography one day!"

It would be brilliant if she did, though.

MonsoonMadness · 16/01/2023 11:11

fruitstick · 16/01/2023 10:33

There's a bit in the book where Kate was told not to use a tennis racquet on a visit to a tennis camp because those photos would overshadow photos of Camilla at a different event.

What a pathetic way for adults to live. It's time the monarchy was dismantled.

GoingtotheWinchester · 16/01/2023 11:12

@MonsoonMadness yep and hell yeah.

Blossomtoes · 16/01/2023 11:14

Hell no. They’re far too entertaining. How dull this month would’ve been without them.

Novella4 · 16/01/2023 11:35

That's it exactly -
It's entertainment for bored people
Well gossip and entertainment is easily arranged and not at cost to an increasingly poor country of £350 million !

Shelefttheweb · 16/01/2023 11:45

MonsoonMadness · 16/01/2023 11:11

What a pathetic way for adults to live. It's time the monarchy was dismantled.

I am sure the Tennis Camp was delighted to have her there even if they didn’t make the front pages nationally. Her presence would have been in all the local media and tennis related media raising the profile of the camp probably helping it secure future funding. Ditto Camilla’s event. Is it anymore ‘pathetic’ than any other public-facing profession with rules around behaviour? She doesn’t have to wear a Mickey Mouse suit (and FairPlay to those who do - it must be hard work). And when she isn’t working I am sure she is free to play tennis privately.

Chasedbythechaser · 16/01/2023 12:02

bakalava · 16/01/2023 11:00

I'm sure that Kate never threw herself on the ground in a tantrum screaming "Mummy, I want to play with the waquet!!!!!!!" "I need therapy and I'm so going to tell everyone about it in my autobiography one day!"

I think the point you have missed is how carefully orchestrated every single thing they do in public is. So for those saying X is like this or Y likes that, it’s all organised and curated to give the message they want to portray and yet the public believe everything they see/read. Well the royalists do anyway.

Blossomtoes · 16/01/2023 12:05

Novella4 · 16/01/2023 11:35

That's it exactly -
It's entertainment for bored people
Well gossip and entertainment is easily arranged and not at cost to an increasingly poor country of £350 million !

£102 million actually but obviously lying about it appeals to the credulous. The monarchy costs me a fraction of my TV licence and represents considerably better value.

bakalava · 16/01/2023 12:08

Chasedbythechaser · 16/01/2023 12:02

I think the point you have missed is how carefully orchestrated every single thing they do in public is. So for those saying X is like this or Y likes that, it’s all organised and curated to give the message they want to portray and yet the public believe everything they see/read. Well the royalists do anyway.

I'm not sure where you got that from. Of course it is carefully curated, what isn't? Right from the nursery nativity play onwards.
The only people who have a problem with that are those whose ambitions or intentions are at odds with the institution they have signed up to represent.

Harry never signed up in that he was born into it but Meghan definitely did. If you have a problem with hierarchy and rules then you should never marry into such a show. Leave the show to those who value and enjoy it rather than bursting in trying to change everything from a position of obvious ignorance.

I'm not a royalist btw but I know a rabble rouser when I see one 😉

Holdinghnds · 16/01/2023 12:49

I can’t understand why anyone would see an issue with an institution, whose main role is to patron good causes and shine a light on them, curating appointments made by its multiple representatives in order to prioritise the publicity received by said causes. Yes, there’s a hierarchy and why shouldn’t there be? H seemed to have a massive issue with some people being higher up the pecking order than him, that’s his issue. He also appears to have a massive chip on his shoulder that his brother had some authority over his life/work. It’s an unusual situation which would amplify sibling rivalry.

Mirabai · 16/01/2023 12:55

I can’t understand why anyone would see an issue with an institution, whose main role is to patron good causes and shine a light on them, curating appointments made by its multiple representatives in order to prioritise the publicity received by said causes.

There seems to be some confusion between the monarchy and the church here - and both have been historically equally corrupt.

Blossomtoes · 16/01/2023 12:57

Mirabai · 16/01/2023 12:55

I can’t understand why anyone would see an issue with an institution, whose main role is to patron good causes and shine a light on them, curating appointments made by its multiple representatives in order to prioritise the publicity received by said causes.

There seems to be some confusion between the monarchy and the church here - and both have been historically equally corrupt.

I disagree. I don’t think that’s the role of either the monarchy or the church. Or any other institution for that matter.

babsanderson · 16/01/2023 12:58

The role of the monarchy appears to be to accumulate as much wealth as possible.

Blossomtoes · 16/01/2023 13:02

babsanderson · 16/01/2023 12:58

The role of the monarchy appears to be to accumulate as much wealth as possible.

They’re not very good at it then. The PM’s richer than the King.

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