If you’re not pro RF or Pro Megs/Haz. What do you believe?

[Orangefir]

If you have mixed opinions of each camp. What do you and what do you not believe?

I’ll go first!

Truth

• I do think William has a temper
• I think Harry is extremely unwell
• I do think William and Kate gave a very cool welcoming to Meg because they were wary of her
• I do believe Meghan was seeking a platform
• I do believe she was judged because she is mixed race
• I do believe she was judged because she was divorced, mid thirties, an actress and American
• I do believe both Harry and Meg were given preferential treatment ( Xmas at Sandringham when only engaged etc)
• I do believe the previously work-shy Cambridges upped their game on Meghans arrival because they were intimidated by her
• I believe the Sussex staff and how they were mistreated
• I believe Meg and Harry have no self awareness and are hypocrites with their behaviour
• I believe that Megs connections helped her target a date with the prince and was planned
• I do believe that the marriage will end in divorce because of Harry’s behaviour
• I do think stories were leaked but not on the orders of William and Charles but were leaks from disgruntled staff, many stories have turned out to be true.

I don’t believe Diana is communicating with Harry, that the palace were conspiring against them or that Meghan has any real control over Harry

Oprah is not a good person.

The existence of Anne and Edward hasn’t done much to make Andrew less of a twat.

(And I think we can judge him based on the Maitlis interview)

Spot on with your assessment of prime ministers - I didn't think of applying it to MM but it makes sense. Very depressing.

@Katypp I too think the mixed race issue complicates things, as if anyone criticises MM for being controlling and self serving and manipulating a clearly weak man for status and wealth, the Stans cry “ Racism “.

I too think it won’t last.
Harry blundered in, MM was anxious to marry , most likely, unlike Harry’s past GFs

At some point I started to feel like I was watching my 1st marriage play out again. Just with older, more high profile people.

Could be entirely wrong, projecting, or imagining things. But it the symptoms at least do look familiar. We were two young damaged people (parents/family stuff), both suffering with a sort of arrested development in some aspects of our personalities, who brought out the absolute worst in each other. We wound each other up (cos we knew where each others’ buttons were) and blamed everybody but ourselves for the various conflicts we created with his family, each other and to a lesser extent my own family.

Two people can lean hard on each other and compensate for each other's lack. But with us it was like our lacks meshed too well and got horribly amplified.

Hope I’m wrong and it’s something more easily resolvable for them, because they have children.

I have the impression that William has gone out of his way to find a wife who doesn’t share his own lacks and Catherine seems like a good fit. But I only see the image they choose to share so haven’t got much to go on.

I'd say that's what makes it an interesting thread and discussion rather than just slinging "she's awful" or "she's the best thing since sliced bread"...or "why do people have too much time on their hands?".

Cheers @SighsTheNewWord

Sort If why I started it because I seem to hold various contradictory views all at once about the whole situation. I always find myself agreeing with everyone’s point of view when I read them! Just shows it’s complicated and our opinions can be complex.

Yes!!

Rather than giving him MH excuses, I think Harry is what we used to call "a nasty piece of work" as well as being thick as two short ones and lacking in awareness. I also am fairly sure that Megan would have been one of the mean girls at school. I remember the excitement around the wedding, and don't think Brits are racist about her (in the main) but I think her character has shown to be spiteful and downright unpleasant which shines through in her expression (as well as being astoundingly beautiful she also seems to smirk a lot in photos which does not help).
However, I think we are seeing Harry's true colours now that he is out in the wild, but Megan is the Lady Macbeth scapegoat.
I can't imagine a happy ending, sadly.

I believe that Harry could not accept that in the monarchy it really is only those directly in line who matter.

I find all the royal family children good looking and wonder if the adults dread the setting in of the ugly Windsor genes.

I believe the Harry we are seeing now is the real Harry. I think he was protected and coddled and his behaviour was hidden by the RF until he left the country. This is his real personality, not the cheeky chappy most thought he was.

I agree with your initial post OP. I'm neither pro anyone.

I will say I do however "believe" in monarchy through personal preference, I wouldn't want a president. But I am happy and willing to accept republicans have valid points of views and a right to their personal beliefs and views.

William definitely has a temper, and it's easily egged on by his sibling. Our siblings always know which buttons to press and we don't behave with our siblings like we would a friend, spouse or stranger. It's a different relationship dynamic.

I also believe US personalities have exploited a very unwell Harry for their own personal and financial gain.

I also believe Meghan has been absolutely blindsided, and I do feel for her somewhat, but I believe 90% of the blame lies with Harry. I also believe she is having to deal with the "real" Harry having now been married/with him for 5+ years, and I think unless that woman has the patience of a saint, I wouldn't blame her for walking away in the future. He just seems like a spoilt, angry man child.

I believe both men, William and Harry are traumatised men, William seems to have faired better, probably due to personality and long term support from Catherine. Lack of substance misuse and applying himself to therapy correctly has probably also helped him come to terms with it all a bit better.

The extract from the book when William pleaded with Harry on the walk back after Prince Phillips funeral was a difficult read, he was pleading with his brother, saying he loved him, genuinely wanted him to be happy but Harry completely dismissed it all, I felt sorry for William in that extract, gripping hold of his brother and begging, literally clinging on to him. It was a sad read.

I can't see them reconciling after this, which is sad to see.

Harry I believe needs an intervention, a serious intervention, and I feel so sorry for Meghan as this burden will fall on to her.

I believe all parties involved are damaged people and dipshits of various degrees. Definitely not the people I'd like to know or be around in real life.

Sections of the British media and British society are hugely racist (btw, the Pope is a Catholic) and MM was on the receiving end, sometimes insidiously.

MM knew much more than she let on about PH, the Royal Family etc at the outset of their relationship - there's simply no way that a well-connected 30-something woman with a certain public profile would scroll through H's instagram for elephant pics (as Netflix suggested) and just sort of shrug off thinking about the RF, the institution, previous gossip about PH, comments from friends of friends in the know etc. If not right at the start then very soon after. Nonetheless I think she assumed her brilliance would shine through and there would be no walkabouts in Doncaster - she'd shake up the institution and become its shining light. When that didn't happen it was the beginning of the end.

PH is really quite dim, and the book is his take on his "truth". I've no idea why some of the content was allowed to stand though.

I think their marriage won't last the decade, and he'll be back in the UK on his own with (by his standards) limited means and limited contact with his kids.

I think the RF, with all its flaws, will simply roll on. Neither Charles, William or George will have it in them to dismantle it when that would mean the loss of whatever relevance or authority the crown still holds.

I think the whole place leaks and that all sides including Harry have and had leaked at times to cover their own arses.

I think the rf have covered a lot for Harry and this person we see today is the real him and he was always like that. I expect W and C likely did keep MM at arms length and to an extent I reckon H has been kept at such for time really maybe without him realising due to how volatile he is.

I think Mm knew more than she let in but also knew nothing of actual truth about the mundane Rf life and was led a lie by H. She’s not a completely innocent party tho or a silly little girl who doesn’t no better, she still decided to marry this Buffoon and have children with him.

The rf is ultimately out to protect it self just like any other family or organisation. Harry is a loose live wire trying to spark a fire.

I don’t see a happy ending because I don’t think Harry will ever actually truly be happy even if he became king I expect he would still be a sack of hatred.

Lots of well thought of posts.

I believe Harry is sticking to the ‘the palace leaked first’ story to justify selling out, he has a habit of blaming others for his own actions. I think the real reason he’s done this is for the cash, and because they thought it would elevate them into a sort of alternative rival court.

Another poster wrote that the bullied staff were probably behind the leaks, I think there may be truth in that.

I don’t believe Harry is really a feminist. This new age evolved man version of him is just another personality he’s currently trying out. I believe it’s true Harry mirrors partners to an extent that he morphs into them. And gives credence to William being worried he’s been ‘brainwashed’ but wrongly attributed the change in personality to Harry’s therapist.

I believe Harry and Meghan spilling the tea, has left William and Kate feeling vindicated. They probably purposefully kept some distance to avoid leaks. Meghan apparently leaked stories about Kate snubbing her regarding a lift etc. early on. Also there were rumours about her taking photos of their children when she’d been asked not to. As they had been concerned about them being leaked.

Just read the bit about Harry noticing his brothers ‘alarming baldness, more advanced than mine’ at their grandfather’s funeral.

Alarming? Why? Has something been lost in translation?

Will the actual book explain?

Funny all these assumptions people make. Actually she wasn't a mean girl at school, she wasn't beautiful like she is now and she was actually a bit of a nerd (well according to the Netflix doc anyway, it had old school friends and even a teacher so seemed legit)

I agree with most of what you have said, apart from the 'judging' of Meghan.

I think there was almost certainly a clash of personalities due to her being American. But I think she was judged on her behaviour. Bullying, over familiarity and high self opinion.