If you’re not pro RF or Pro Megs/Haz. What do you believe?

[Orangefir]

If you have mixed opinions of each camp. What do you and what do you not believe?

I’ll go first!

Truth

• I do think William has a temper
• I think Harry is extremely unwell
• I do think William and Kate gave a very cool welcoming to Meg because they were wary of her
• I do believe Meghan was seeking a platform
• I do believe she was judged because she is mixed race
• I do believe she was judged because she was divorced, mid thirties, an actress and American
• I do believe both Harry and Meg were given preferential treatment ( Xmas at Sandringham when only engaged etc)
• I do believe the previously work-shy Cambridges upped their game on Meghans arrival because they were intimidated by her
• I believe the Sussex staff and how they were mistreated
• I believe Meg and Harry have no self awareness and are hypocrites with their behaviour
• I believe that Megs connections helped her target a date with the prince and was planned
• I do believe that the marriage will end in divorce because of Harry’s behaviour
• I do think stories were leaked but not on the orders of William and Charles but were leaks from disgruntled staff, many stories have turned out to be true.

I don’t believe Diana is communicating with Harry, that the palace were conspiring against them or that Meghan has any real control over Harry

I think that Harry is not very intelligent and has been brought up to believe he is special in an environment where people agree with him and bend to his will. His public image was carefully crafted by people who work for the RF and are very good at their jobs. Because they did such a good job, he believed that it was a) real and b) easy to do. Now he's stepped away from the RF and doesn't benefit from their skills anymore, he's screwing everything up.

In short, it's the Dunning-Kruger effect.

As for whether Meghan is a bitch or William was mean. Who cares? Families can be really shitty to each other sometimes. It doesn't mean we should all denounce them in public.

Doing all this public stuff was a bug mistake in my view. The genie is out of the bottle. I bet the tabloids have loads more dirt on both M and H and they've called open season by voluntarily revealing all this private stuff.

I think being in the Royal family is a gilted cage. Worse than The Truman Show because they know we are constantly talking about them. As a result they are a very dysfunctional family and seem to becoming increasingly so with each generation as the press intrusion increases. This is particularly hard on the 'spare' who is always cast as the more glamorous sibling who struggles to find a role and often partakes in self destructive behaviour (Harry, Andrew, Margaret). It's not great for those who marry in either. No sensible person would want their child to join that family. We really need to get rid of them for their own sake.

I wish, then I’d have least have got paid for working on a Sunday 😀

Agree, The sun has already put out a few stories now ( army drug tests, young chalet girl) that they’ve clearly been sitting on. However they are getting lost in the deluge of stories

Agree with the OP.

I think William and Kate are not doing very well in their marriage and would be a difficult and uncomfortable couple to be around. William is a self centred, aggressive man, Kate knows what she's supposed to do and buries her identity in her children. I'm sure neither had much bandwidth to get behind Harry's worship of Meghan and this didn't go down well. I think Harry is like a puppy and demanded certain treatment for Meghan that was widely resented. I think Meghan is very much a Hollywood person, extremely self involved and contrived (just look at her beautiful, stylish, unnatural handwriting) who works very hard to create a veneer of casual, easygoing simplicity which is actually very hard to get with if you're not from California and puts people on edge.

So faults all round, really. Clash of styles, life stages, competitive people competing but in a family scenario with the whole world watching.

I agree that PW and CM are workshy and felt threatened by MM. They were unwelcoming and probably made their dislike known. MM was an unknown quantity.

I disagree that MM was given a hard time by the press. The negativity was petty and sniping and would've blown over. CPB and SF faced far worse. Most people liked her and thought she was a breathe of fresh air.

I think the decision to leave the RF was driven solely by MM. Harry was happy as Larry with his lot in life, why wouldn't he be? I think she thought she would be living in an actual palace, spending half the year on a yacht in Cannes, attending nightly gala functions and graciously meeting world leaders. The reality was a poky grace and favour cottage, shaking hands with people from council estates in the pissing rain and being bossed around by palace officials. She must've thought Nah....

I don't think PW and KM are happily married. There is zero chemistry between them. But they have an "arrangement" and KM will be encouraged by her parents to put up and shut up for the sake of her DCs and for the sake of the whole family as well as her untold wealth and lifestyle.

The book, Netflix and the whole shebang has been driven by financial gain and nothing else as PH and MM want a billionaire's lifestyle on a millionaire's income. They didn't think it through and thought they could leave the RF but still be supported by Charles and get free security from UK Govt. They are desperate for money and this is the only way they can earn money other than getting an actual job.

The whole thing is a sorry mess and there is fault all round. PW and KM should've been nicer, MM should've ignored the press and got over delusions of grandeur. PC should've intervened sooner and made sure his kids rather then shutting himself down with CPB. Ditto HMQ; she should've spent time with her family rather then her dogs and horses. Harry should stop feeling sorry for himself and realise he had it made. Yes his mother died and it was very sad but other than that he had a wonderful life.

Having watched the whole documentary series I do think that she was initially built up by the British press and once her popularity (along with Harry) reached a certain level then they started to tear her down.

Some of the things that were written about her heritage (delving into her family history), making statements like "straight out of Compton" and all the shit that happened with her Dads side of the family was just horrendous.

I also think that the relationship between the media and the palace, the leaking of stories from family members and the sabotage that seems to regularly occur must be SO hard to live with, when it's your own family throwing you under the bus.

There was also their (seemingly genuine) concern for their safety and lack of security.

I think if they had stopped at the TV series then the public would have been mostly sympathetic to their plight. I don't think either of them came across badly in it. They seemed to want a quiet life and to be left alone.

This is why the book is so shocking! I think it's partly driven by money and partly driven by wanting to make his family suffer. He's a very naive man if he thinks that there will be any kind of reconciliation now.

I do think William has a temper
I think Harry is extremely unwell
I do think William and Kate gave a very cool welcoming to Meg because they were wary of her
I do believe Meghan was seeking a platform
I do believe she was judged because she is mixed race
I do believe she was judged because she was divorced, mid thirties, an actress and American
I do believe both Harry and Meg were given preferential treatment ( Xmas at Sandringham when only engaged etc)
I do believe the previously work-shy Cambridges upped their game on Meghans arrival because they were intimidated by her
I believe the Sussex staff and how they were mistreated
I believe Meg and Harry have no self awareness and are hypocrites with their behaviour
I believe that Megs connections helped her target a date with the prince and was planned

^This

I do believe that the marriage will end in divorce because of Harry’s behaviour

^Not this

I do think stories were leaked but not on the orders of William and Charles but were leaks from disgruntled staff, many stories have turned out to be true. I believe William and Charles and the queen knew this was going on and at best turned a blind eye.

I believe Kate has an eating disorder and that is how her struggles with all this RF sh1t manifest. And I believe all of this stuff between the Cambridges and Sussexes has not helped her MH one little bit. For all the discussion about M+H MH there are others struggling and who will struggle in the future with this stuff too.

I think the racism against Meghan has been huge and informs much of the tone of the reporting about her. That said, I believe these things:
Charles and Camilla’s relationship is based on massive, continuing sexual chemistry to the point where Charles puts their relationship and her before all else, including his duty to his country.
I believe that H&M’s relationship exactly replicates his father’s.
I think that H is very very dim.
I think that Charles, W & H all have the famous Windsor temper. The late Queen’s father was renowned for his rages as was his father before him.
I think H led M up the garden path about what life as a member of the RF would be like and she wanted to get away once she realised how crap it is.
I think H has no idea how wealthy he is and believes he needs to earn vast amounts in order to survive, which he doesn’t.
I think Kate is a sphinx and we have absolutely no idea what she’s really like.
I think W should be the monarch who transitions the UK to a republic.

For all the claims from the H&M camp that she was treated in a racist way and the media don't like them, wasn't there a period of time in which the reception of her and their relationship was very warm? The whole Fab Four thing etc. I thought the reaction to their engagement was really positive and the media turned when they began displaying this kind of behaviour, wanting to leave etc.

I believe that Royalty survived the 20th century because of the determination and personality of the Queen, but that it doesn’t make any sense whatsoever, and depends completely on privacy and mystery.

Tbe greatest threat from Harry’s book is not the individual claims (nothing new revealed - it’s not tampongate), but that it demonstrates Charles’ lack of authority at a time when it’s never been easier to make your voice heard.

The Queen had many difficult family members to deal with, including an actual ex King, but whether through financial control or personality, she kept them all more or less in the tent.

I believe PH would have been happier with Chelsea but she could not bear a life in the goldfish bowl of the RF. It is difficult to understand why anyone would willingly marry into the senior royal family seeing how Diana, Katherine and Meghan have been treated and what their lives are. Rather like the idea that anyone wanting to become Prime Minister has deep psychological flaws making them supremely unsuited to the role, PH's tragedy is that a sensible grounded woman who loved him would run a mile from the inevitable future they would have married to him. It is only because Meghan herself is damaged and the product of a dysfunctional family that she was willing to marry him.

Even though I think there was positive feeling towards her at the beginning, I think she had no idea what she was walking into and what the job of being Royal is, this would have inevitably caused problems, and there is an army of people just waiting to hate women, and particularly non white women.

(For comparison white male politicians from any party get a much easier ride than non white female MPs from any party).

This. I do worry for Harry though, I don’t think he’s well and can’t see how this is going to end well which is a shame for his kids

I think Kate is a sphinx and we have absolutely no idea what she’s really like.
I think W should be the monarch who transitions the UK to a republic.

This makes the most sense to me. When the dust settles and William has had time to reflect, why would he want to perpetuate any of this on to his own children. The costs are too high and unforeseeable. He sees himself as a modern man and maybe this is the right time to end it. Maybe he will be the last king and his reign will oversee the dismantling of the monarchy and give time for the creation of the institutions of state that will be needed in its place. The kids could then be whatever they want to be - the marriage could survive or fail on its own merits. Kate has put everything and more into being a royal and a parent but if she had to choose why would she chose the gilded cage for her own children when she can see the damage it has caused everywhere she looks.

I think Kate is quite boring really but that’s her super power. Doesn’t rock the boat, little controversy, always toes the line

I agree, but I do think the transition of W&K is mostly to do with the Queen and Charles's health now.

I think H will rue the day he wrote that book as interviews can be seen to be manipulated. This book is set in stone .

I believe the late queen was the only thing holding the entire shitshow together and now she's gone the wheels are coming off quicker than even a Kwikfit fitter could manage.

I broadly agree with the OP.

I think MM did receive racist treatment.

I don't think MM was ever welcomed warmly into the RF and accepted in the same way as KM.

I don't think MM's family were offered appropriate support and contact from the RF and their staff in the run up to the wedding. They were left floundering at the centre of a media circus and, being dysfunctional, toxic and desperate for the limelight, this led to a lot of the drama that turned the press and public off H&M.

I think MM expected marrying H would be like a Disney movie with endless ball gowns, premiers, meeting exciting people, travelling the globe and living a life of luxury. Whilst some of that is true, I think she was woefully underprepared for the reality of life as a senior working royal and the intense schedule and lack of freedom that entails.

I believe that both H & M have nasty tempers and I believe the claims of mistreatment from their staff.

I believe that W & K are similarly cut throat characters.

I believe that Charles has prioritised his relationship with Camilla over the wellbeing of his sons and that this has had a more profound impact on H than his brother.

I think H is very unwell and desperately unhappy. I think he is traumatised over the way he lost his mother and I think he resents Camilla and his father. I think this (and the fact he's not very smart) has caused him to cling to M and to fall for the manipulation tactics of Opera and her team.

I think his behaviour is coming from a place of deep hurt and that he is being encouraged and used by people around him for their financial gain. I don't think his primary aim is to make money or to damage the RF; I think he feels hurt and exasperated and is lashing out.

I think H is unprepared for the predictable backlash from this book.

I think the marriage will end in divorce and M will do the media rounds with Opera and the like, spilling the details of their private life.

I think W and H are likely to both have massive issues, having been raised in a dysfunctional family (dad never wanted to marry their mum; mum died when they were young and they couldn't grieve properly) within a wider dysfunctional institution.

I think W responded to this by partnering someone very grounded from what appears to be a tight knit, supportive family.

I think H responded to this by partnering someone with huge unresolved issues of their own and they feed each other's victim mentality.

Other than this I have absolutely no clue. I find it bizarre that people have opinions on whether W has a quick temper, K is cool and stand offish etc. None of us witnessed the events that are recounted and they're completely one-sided.

I don't know, Diana and Charles both gave tell all interviews on Queen Elizabeth's watch. Diana ghost wrote a book, and Tampon gate happened, and then a public battle for assets. Diana exited the royal family and every aspect of that was negotiated and controversial at the time.

People are acting like this is unprecedented but it's very similar to what happened before.

The reality is they are just human people who, like many humans, are fucked up and destructive at times. The problem is that we elevate them above everyone, when they are just a hot mess and basically a reality show.

If they had any sense they'd abolish themselves.

I don't believe Diana is a saint, as people make her out to be. I have to say that the way she looked at people sometimes was really creepy. That downward facing, glaring through her lashes manner.

I believe if she was alive today, more people would start talking about her like they do about Harry.

I think she knew how to wield her power and manipulate others and I see a bit of that in Meghan too.

I also think she was beautiful and had her good sides, like Meghan.

I believe it was stupid/crass of William to say to the public that he's mother was paranoid, even if he was right. I think it's a betrayal of her memory from her own son and he wanted to cement himself as supporting his dad.

I think that Harry is not very intelligent and has been brought up to believe he is special in an environment where people agree with him and bend to his will. His public image was carefully crafted by people who work for the RF and are very good at their jobs. Because they did such a good job, he believed that it was a) real and b) easy to do. Now he's stepped away from the RF and doesn't benefit from their skills anymore, he's screwing everything up.

In short, it's the Dunning-Kruger effect.

As for whether Meghan is a bitch or William was mean. Who cares? Families can be really shitty to each other sometimes. It doesn't mean we should all denounce them in public.

Doing all this public stuff was a <big> mistake in my view. The genie is out of the bottle. I bet the tabloids have loads more dirt on both M and H and they've called open season by voluntarily revealing all this private stuff.

100% this

Hoist by his own petard.

Other than this I have absolutely no clue. I find it bizarre that people have opinions on whether W has a quick temper, K is cool and stand offish etc. None of us witnessed the events that are recounted and they're completely one-sided.

Yes - people have opinions as though they have been watching Eastenders - how can they know?

Also a drama tells a story so characters are more clearly drawn. Real life is complicated.