Meghan 'offended' for telling Kate she had 'baby brain'

[fartichoke]

Well, the Daily Fail have got their hands on a Spanish copy of the ''memoir'', so there is going to be shrapnel flying about from now until kingdom come.

One of these ''revelations'' is that Meghan made a joke about Kate having ''baby brain hormones'' a month after having Louis, which upset Kate, which in turn then upset Meghan.

Can you imagine the Oprah-style feeding frenzy had this been reversed - Kate telling Meghan that she had baby brain and hormones, which would have perfectly tapped into the villainous ice queen depiction that H&M are flogging right now?

Harry is soap operatising the royal family in the most sensational and tabloid dripfeed way possible (calling his brother his 'archnemesis'.

He is shockingly narcissistic, if he thinks this is not also going to also blow up on him and Meghan. The hypocrisy and whole thing is a shit show.

I lost a baby who was born prem. The grief hit me hard (she was an IVF baby too so possibly our last chance to be parents). Three days after the birth/death my MIL told be I was hormonal and my SIL had been just the same after her (very much alive) baby had been born, always bursting into tears. Do you think I should have laughed about that too?

Since when was saying ‘baby brain’ offensive?

Brain fog and forgetfulness are part of pregnancy or having a young baby because our bodies are growing an entire human inside of us and it’s just one of the many issues that comes with it.

Recognising someone is hormonal or is finding challenges due to being pregnant is not offensive and I find it so annoying that women and the terminology used to describe us is constantly being seen as often and something to erase.

I think it's clear now that neither Harry or Meghan can cope with any criticism, not even the slightest bit. And they are both brooders, bringing up the same issues again and again.

That's not a good combination in a couple - if you are uber sensitive you need a more stable partner to let you vent and then talk you down. I think these two make each other worse.

Yes, I think so too, there almost seems to be something subtly satirical or mocking in some of this content and the way it is described, like someone has had the last laugh at their expense and they have not noticed. But then maybe the actual text varies in the book from what has been described in the media. Who knows.

@toocold54 it maybe depends in what concept and how
Its also not offensive for someone to tell someone that maybe you don't know them well enough to make those comments
The only ones making a big deal out of it now are H & M and mostly H it seems

I can just hear Markle saying it, with that awful ‘mean girl’ vocal fry. Patronising and horrid.

Can someone please tell me why. Baby Brain is so offensive.

Should I have been offended when I forgot things after Ds and people told me it was baby brain.

It sounds like playground bullying to make what I would have thought as a perfectly harmless comment into such a big deal.

Is it really though? I feel like it's more misogynistic to pretend that giving birth and hormones has no effect on women whatsoever or that we should hide and mask these things that are so singularly associated with womanhood.

I haven't read the book or any articles tbh because I honestly don't care, but I do care about media representation of women and Meghan has been a huge target.

From my own frame of reference, everyone I know who's had a baby or is a relative/friend of someone who has had a baby has made light hearted jokes about baby brain, more during pregnancy than post birth. It seems like the kind of comment that if you like that person, it's taken how it's intended to be i.e. a light hearted joke and acknowledgement of what a woman goes through, but if made by someone you don't like, seems a bit of an excuse to go off on them.

And on the flip side, if you don't like someone, I suppose it could be one of those faux innocent comments one could make to put someone down and then claim innocence when they were offended.

It all comes down to relationship dynamics and interpretation which is only appropriate to do if you're actually party to the situation. It's hardly something one can condemn or condone Meghan or Kate over 🙄

Because Kate is a peacemaker. She tries to see the other side, knows the wedding is a lot of stress and doesn't want to cause problems, and will do what she can to make the situation easier. Look how she walked with Harry and William at Philip's funeral, and then dropped back to give them space (not that it worked!). Other people try and make a drama out of everything.

Remember what Meghan said when she was a few months post partum in Africa- "no one asked me if I'm ok" - she spoke at length on the Netflix doc about how vulnerable you are as a new mother. We all get that. I admired her for not doing the hospital steps photo shoot as I think it seems like an extraordinary expectation which id never have coped with.

But she doesn't seem to have reflected on her words to another pregnant or post party woman and how awful and sexist it is to accuse a woman in that position who she barely knows of being "hormonal".

Two moms who get along can make that joke.
A vain childless girlfriend cannot go there with a post partum wife of brother's girlfriend whom she hardly knows.

I'm not surprised that Kate never let her hitch a ride on the way to Sloane Square on that occasion when M took offence. If there was a puddle on the road then she would probably have delivered a SATC drenching.

I don’t think it is really, but I wonder if Meghan came across the odd British cultural thing where you can say something about yourself but someone else saying it can be a problem - magnified by the stuffiness of the Royal Family and the leaking of the story. Then thinking that an apology from KM meant an actual admission of fault vs a smoothing over technique.

Meghan wasn't even married to Harry at the time so she was hardly 'family, ' I'd be raging if my brothers new girlfriend had said this to me, it's downright fucking rude and overfamiliar...

That's a really good point - if on the Oprah interview she'd added a sentence on there which acknowledged that she now understood more how post-partum Kate might have been feeling etc etc

Two moms who get along can make that joke.
A vain childless girlfriend cannot go there with a post partum wife of brother's girlfriend whom she hardly knows

Yes. Context is key.

Also to the poster who questioned if it was really sexist.

Hormonal
On the rag
Baby brain

These are all sexist terms which demean women on the grounds of their biology implying that they are irrational - just think about the linguistic origins of the word "hysterical".

I think the bigger picture is that whether it was offensive or not, they were both upset, Kate apologised for her part and that should be the end of it.

The Sussexes gripe was that BP didn't correct the press when they reported that Meghan had made Kate cry as to their minds it was the other way around. Why would they correct them over such a silly story that was actually pretty accurate.

They've now done an Oprah interview and written about it in this book.

It's ridiculous. It was a none event. You move on.

Yeh, @theveg don't forget menopausal!

I agree that context is everything, if somebody who'd had a baby around the same time I'd had one said it to me I could laugh because it's not threatening. If somebody with no kids says it to you it's a put down with no comaraderie

Because it dismisses a women’s feelings, or actions by saying they are simply down to hormones and therefore unreasonable. Thus when my MIL said it was just hormones making me cry after my daughters stillbirth it implied that were it not for my hormones I would not be upset at the death of my daughter and my grief was unreasonable/unwarranted.

It’s one thing to have a sister/mam/friend say “oh it must be the baby brain and hormones”. Lightheartedly. It’s quite another for an acquaintance at best to say it during a disagreement over something in a tense situation.

So from what Harry has said in his book, he has basically confirmed everything that has come out about him and Meghan. William got heated over treatment of the staff and dog bowl gate happened. I believe the staff were bullied.

Meghan did make Kate cry. And if the shoe was on the other foot there would have been a witch hunt for Kate.

He said him and William begged Charles not to marry Camilla, that I can kind of believe happened given everything that went on.

He believes Camilla sold stories to the press. I don’t believe that. She’s had a rotten time in the press over the years so doubt she would subject anyone else to it.

Harry has just fucked himself over massively. I wonder what it’s like behind closed doors tonight in California. I can’t imagine Meghan will be too happy with how she’s come across in his book.

This whole event will be fodder for her own book. And I do believe she has a book coming. But not until the divorce papers are signed.

He has destroyed his familial ties. And he will live to regret it.

I'm sure as with all things in life there are things that, if viewed with hindsight W & K might have done differently.

I think the thing that grates the most about this whole thing is the seemingly complete inability of H or M to accept any fault at all in any single interaction they have ever had.

With the baby brain comment for example, maybe it wasn't intended to offend but it clearly did. So in that scenario, when recounting it (for reasons unknown) it would come across much more sympathetically if you accepted that maybe, with hindsight, you can see it wasn't the best thing to say and it was never your intention to cause any upset or something along those lines. There just doesn't seem to be any self reflection at all on the part of H or M.

It is offensive.

if Kate had forgotten where she’d put her keys it might have been an acceptable comment but they had a disagreement. Kate was upset and Meghan rather than accept Kate has a right to be upset (regardless of whether she thought she had a point or not) invalidated her feelings. Basic
saying your opinion is pointless and worthless and you only feel like that because you’re a silly pregnant woman.

I think they have split the content along logical lines across both their books. He is dealing very little with the racism, her book will deep dive. He is focusing on his relationship with W, she will focus more on Kate. As M's will be the second book, she will learn from the mistakes/reaction to the first book so hers will be better received and it wont hinder her future ambitions.

Well yes,no sisterhood here

It’s one thing to have a sister/mam/friend say “oh it must be the baby brain and hormones”. Lightheartedly. It’s quite another for an acquaintance at best to say it during a disagreement over something in a tense situation.

Especially when that person is a senior member of the RF and you are a newcomer.

But Baby brain isn’t about feelings it’s about your actions. Not being able to remember.

I had baby brain for 2 years. I would go to make a cup of coffee, like i have done 1000 times before and have not a clue how you made it.

I once forgot how to drive in the middle of a 3 point turn.

I couldn’t remember how to pay a bill so Dh had to take over.

That is baby brain. It might be caused by hormones but it isn’t being hormonal.

I agree someone telling you that you are hormonal because you are sad is not baby brain.