Harry and Meghan -- Why I dislike them BOTH

[PipinwasAuntieMabelsdog]

I keep seeing threads that say everyone who dislikes the Sussexs is based on some form of racism and I wanted to put my view across. I will set the parameters of my points:

1. Meghan absolutely did receive racist coverage from sections of the British media.

1. I believe that there were threats to their safety by far right loons.
2. I believe they were both unhappy as working members of the RF

However...

I still find them both very disingenuous. They highlight and speak up against the racism of others, whilst failing to address Harry's previous and documented racist behaviour. As a Jew I cannot understand how Meghan can just remain silent about her husbands former mistakes. This makes her seem untrustworthy to me and seems like she will put up with anything for money and cache, whilst arguing (rightly) that racism is totally unacceptable. He keeps saying others need to learn and he is right, but he should acknowledge that he too needed to learn, acknowledge the support needed to help others learn and offer that support to others (including his own family, if needed).

Their attitude towards the public also seems 'off' and ungrateful to me and they seem to collocate the press and the public as the same thing. There is a lot of footage of the public support for them before, during and after their wedding. Yet, apparently, they did not want the big public wedding and the 'UK' was racist towards them. Harry particularly understands the 'deal' between the monarchy and the public and ought to have explained this to Meghan, the comments re the wedding on Oprah came across as quite spiteful and tone deaf. Almost like, 'we suffered through the big wedding for the plebs.' Ditto all the strange behaviour around Archie's birth. They could have followed the Tindall's approach if they wanted to avoid press intrusion.

During financial pressures around the world they are still complaining and not acknowledging their wealth and privilege, whilst claiming to give voice to the needs of those living in poverty and suffering. The Africa interview was a prime example for both of them. It just all comes together to make them feel untrustworthy to me, and makes me dislike them. I do not wish them any ill, but I wish they would acknowledge their fortune and live private, useful lives.

I quite agree. He still has a lot of work to do. But still feels entitled to be 'enlightened' and lecture others? I am not seeing much humility and acceptance that he has a long way to go

You still have a lot of work to do too.

Yes, definitely racist! Because all white people should be silent and bow down...

Y'know, human nature being what it is (whatever your skin colour) means that we are all distracted by self-interest

@skullbabe he acknowledges he has work to do and that most people probably do. I don’t know many people who speak out on these issues that don’t agree with that general position.

Yes, don't we all?

But I don't believe that everyone with a paler skin or a darker skin is automatically telling the pure truth, and has no ulterior motive

The person saying they were the only 'black' person in the room was considerably more senior to me...

And yet H&M were quick to deny that QE2 or PP were the ones to make the racist (sorry, unconscious bias) remark about Archie. Although PP was quite rightly pilloried about the 'slighty eyed' comment

What do you think about Rachel Doezeal? She identified as black. Visually she could have been bi-racial?

Could she have experienced racism, as visually she might have been bi-racial? Even though she wasn't?

@AsyaShain , that's not allowed on mn !

It can all get a bit hard to interpret. I am more white passing than Meghan (whom I don't even think was especially white passing up to the point where she started changing her appearance). My dad is Mediterranean looking (like John Torode). My mother's family are posh racist, anti-immigration and always used to tell me that my dad looked p-word.
I only ever seriously considered white guys as suitable for relationships (a bit like Meghan). The racism in relation to a parent of colour can pass you by and not be taken personally against you, only against that one other person in your family. I felt no affinity to poc whatsoever in general and I bet Meghan was also similar in that respect. I felt annoyed by my family's racist comments but never personally judged or condemned.
Whenever I made friends with poc, my mum's family would get tense and suspicious about it. It would have been unthinkable to date a poc. I never considered that I had anything in common with poc.

When a DNA test revealed that my dad has a percentage of Afghani blood (a place and culture completely alien to me), the penny dropped. I could no longer see those people on TV as poor, unwanted strangers. I would find myself searching their facial features for similarities to myself, siblings, DCs and wondering whether they could even be distant relatives. Only then did I realize how damaging those earlier jibes had been to my overall outlook. I couldn't take back the lack of identification I had felt throughout my early life because that would be dishonest and I would be called out on it.
My point is that it is complex, you probably do not have the same stance on it throughout your life (if you are white passing) unless you have an activist upbringing where it is specifically dealt with with sensitivity and your origins are accurately identified and celebrated early on.

I find this interesting. Is calling something someone did racist subjugating them? Why would calling something racist be making someone "bow down"?

Many women go through life without directly experiencing sexism and misogyny - or it is low level enough that they don't notice it. They say things like "I just get on better with boys - they gossip less", "I'm not like other women/girls", "Women who complain about the glass ceiling just aren't working hard enough" and some themselves hold sexist views. Some of these women have an event which opens their eyes to the patriarchy and they start to work on advancing equality.

I think it would be churlish to say that their experience would be more convincing if they hadn't experienced the sexist/misogynist event themselves - this is how most people gain understanding of events - through things that directly affect them. And I would think that people (or men) who would say otherwise were either sexist themselves or misogynist . However if I said that, I would not expect a man (or sexist) to say "because all men should be silent and bow down" as a response. I would think it odd that the man would think that I was trying to make them feel inferior or powerless by naming their action.

Well then they didn't make the racist remark about Archie.

PP was treated as a lovable rogue by the British Press for the most part - “If it has four legs and is not a chair, has wings and is not an aeroplane, or swims and is not a submarine, the Cantonese will eat it.” or “You managed not to get eaten, then?” - such japes.

Yes she could have - Rachel indeed identified as black but she also used black signifiers - she wore kente cloth, tanned excessively and wore her hair in elaborate African hairstyles to maintian the illusion that she was black and if she was discriminated against because of how she looked it would be racist (because the person discrimicating against her would be doing it because of her perceived race - just as if someone male who is not Jewish were to wear a yalmuke or orthodox garments and hair styling and had some antisemitic discrimation against them - this would be antisemitism).

And yet there was uproar when it was discovered that she was white?

Why did it matter that she is 'white', not 'black'?

In the documentary here MM's father makes it clear he wants a relationship with his daughter he brought up and the grandchildren and think it is a pity MM and Harry cannot at least let them meet. He also says at one point Harry is a "boy" in a sense (not mature) which I suspect is correct.

Anyway I hope they can all come together and make peace.

I don't really think any of this is much about race, however.

I think he genuinely wants her back but I don't sense that the two step siblings like her at all I'm afraid. that moment during the cookout when they make the jokes sounded really mean as though they have been taking the piss over a long period of time.

Yes I agree, there’s no love lost between the siblings. Funny that her brother has very red hair like Harry, perhaps Archie will resemble his uncle when he’s older

It's very sad, after everything he did for her. That H&M didn't bother to meet him before the official engagement.

He hasnt had contact with his other granchildren either. Samantha's children were bought by her mum.

'bought'?

Because she was wearing it like a costume

Thomas has no relationship with any of his grandchildren.

I really think the pair of them are deeply unpleasant people. They appear to have no moral compass, lack integrity and loyalty and have absolutely no self awareness whatsoever. They are also hypocritical and greedy.