Harry and Meghan -- Why I dislike them BOTH

[PipinwasAuntieMabelsdog]

I keep seeing threads that say everyone who dislikes the Sussexs is based on some form of racism and I wanted to put my view across. I will set the parameters of my points:

1. Meghan absolutely did receive racist coverage from sections of the British media.

1. I believe that there were threats to their safety by far right loons.
2. I believe they were both unhappy as working members of the RF

However...

I still find them both very disingenuous. They highlight and speak up against the racism of others, whilst failing to address Harry's previous and documented racist behaviour. As a Jew I cannot understand how Meghan can just remain silent about her husbands former mistakes. This makes her seem untrustworthy to me and seems like she will put up with anything for money and cache, whilst arguing (rightly) that racism is totally unacceptable. He keeps saying others need to learn and he is right, but he should acknowledge that he too needed to learn, acknowledge the support needed to help others learn and offer that support to others (including his own family, if needed).

Their attitude towards the public also seems 'off' and ungrateful to me and they seem to collocate the press and the public as the same thing. There is a lot of footage of the public support for them before, during and after their wedding. Yet, apparently, they did not want the big public wedding and the 'UK' was racist towards them. Harry particularly understands the 'deal' between the monarchy and the public and ought to have explained this to Meghan, the comments re the wedding on Oprah came across as quite spiteful and tone deaf. Almost like, 'we suffered through the big wedding for the plebs.' Ditto all the strange behaviour around Archie's birth. They could have followed the Tindall's approach if they wanted to avoid press intrusion.

During financial pressures around the world they are still complaining and not acknowledging their wealth and privilege, whilst claiming to give voice to the needs of those living in poverty and suffering. The Africa interview was a prime example for both of them. It just all comes together to make them feel untrustworthy to me, and makes me dislike them. I do not wish them any ill, but I wish they would acknowledge their fortune and live private, useful lives.

both thinking the other was going to help them leap frog to shining star much loved a list celeb status, jet setting round the world, hanging with the likes of the clooneys

They achieved all this pretty quickly at the expense of selling out the royals. It may be feeling like a hollow victory for Harry which is why he keeps rebounding with his grievances to make him feel better for what he did. The demons are all his.

I do so agree with the jealousy suggestion, it explains so much. I think Megan, being an actress, had the idea that she would be the star here in the RF and Harry saw it as the chance for a leg-up. But both the RF top jobs in their generation are already taken and none of their resentment of this will make any difference, other than to make them look petulant.

@Sudeko

Your post is interesting and I wonder about your environment and that of your children where you think that your talent will take you as far as you can and racism doesn't play into it.

I am not going to give examples but what I will say is that now a days even White people , highly successful in their field will acknowledge that black people have to work hard than white counterparts for any recognition. Denying it and pretending it doesn't exist doesn't help anyone, least of all children as when they are old enough (by secondary school) they see it for themselves.

This came from an 11 year old middle class school child who thought they were making a joke.

What Is white on top and black underneath ? Answer - Society.

This turned into an interesting discussion amongst the children in the playground and PHSE.

My point is at that age children already know, they see it when you are not with them so there is no point trying to pull the wool over their eyes, but better to acknowledge and educate.

I agree, I think he was the main issue. And still is. But Meghan played her part in egging it on.

Oprah was being lined up before the wedding for an interview. The guest list was full over a listers they didn’t even know. They had already formally trademarked their brand before rhey even married. Their plan was already excitedly in place.

they did semi achieve it when they did oprah, people thought it was a bit much, same as Africa, but if they’d went on to focus on a proper career path it was all over comeable. But they didn’t. Even George clooney when asked about them said there is no friendship, there was one dinner, and distanced himself . Oprah has tried to distance herself. The prime minister of New Zealand who Meghan was close to, distanced herself. The Netflix ceo tried to distance himself.

they literally could have had what rhey wanted, but they just kept on and on with the story telling and it became too much and they became contentious, divisive, mocked and derided. And I think harry is largely to blame for how far he took it.

Meghan is being harassed by the media, and race feeds into why she is being harassed. And the harassment has an effect on places like this, where we are told there are so many threads about her because she is an attention whore who just loves the attention, when all it is is that she is being stalked and harassed by the media, and then she is blamed for it.

Thanks once again @MrsMaxDeWinter for articulating things so well and for continuing to do so despite those who should be paying attention the most, ignoring it. Even if just for the sake of people of colour on the forum who understand how race plays into media harassment, and life in general, and often feel alone in trying to voice that. People can not like other people, who would think otherwise? But the level of discussion, the lengths people go to and the extent of press intrusion is far beyond what is necessary or reasonable just because you don’t like someone.

The prime minister of New Zealand who Meghan was close to, distanced herself. They were never close! Jacinda was asked at a press conference about the documentary and how much she had to do with them and she answered it. She’s now got a job with William & Kate, resigning as PM before her term was up. You’re reading far too much into it.

Harry is not a person with many ideas (possibly any ideas) and Meghan was definitely the driving force. They could have made so much more of the opportunity.
To think that just prior to the wedding, there was this point in time when Hollywood A listers were willing to drop their commitments and give the couple their time and attention (many of these people no longer want to know them). She rose from relative obscurity and modest success to a princess within a short space of time which was amazing but she dived in too fast after the spoils and squandered the opportunity to make a good, solid impression.

I am not talking about leaving, they had every right to leave if they were no happy. But selling out your family and still remaining trustworthy and popular. They fell off the tightrope so now they have a large pot of money (which could dwindle) but not much else.

@Sudeko asserts baldly that nothing prevents people of colour from getting where they want to.

I push back on what is a shockingly false narrative, giving concrete examples of racial discrimination in the royal households, the police, the city, law firms, and even bring up the recent story of the Ritz that was in the news.

Because she cannot counter here factual posts, of she goes on another tangent, blithely ignoring the response, and now talking with certainty about Harry being jealous of William!

I can predict that, like me, you won't get a response. It's just easier to tear into Harry and Meghan while claiming that the UK is not at all racist. Black people just have to push themselves more!

Where did you get that from? I stand by my statement, you provided examples of regular people facing discrimination. My post never excluded this possibility but wasn't about them. I was talking about the outliers and I made it clear.

I remember ages ago (not on recent threads I think) some people were posting racist and other unpleasant things about Meghan and they turned out to be Fans(MN found this out) just trying to get the threads deleted. Lunacy!

Probably one person and I honestly know nothing about it, and any regulars on here who aren't anti Meghan, would not dream of doing that. So I reject this.

It’s all good sport the M&H stuff and it’s interesting to read their defenders’ posts. There are a few rabid fans and when I see their names/new names, especially starting disingenuous Kate threads I groan and idly wonder what sort of people they are.

Rabid?

I can tell you 'what sort of people they are'. They are the sort of people not filled with scorn, hate and dislike of a human being they will never meet, who has done them no harm, but yet who they have to spend a lot of their life ridiculing and smearing. I know what sort of person I would prefer to be. And it isn't that.
p.s. I and many others would not dream of starting a Kate thread to knock her endlessly, we see enough of it with Meghan.
p.ps. I post against the Institution. My prerogative, as a 'subject' of the Monarchy.

If someone has been really offensive, report it, but otherwise argue sensibly (and robustly!).

I wish.

I can only provide examples from the group considered to be the top 5% of the population where generations of the same families attend the same public schools. It is a multicultural, multiracial group. Racism is not an issue. There is no reason why it would not have a white majority given that this is a Western European country.

As someone I prefer not to engage with has decided to twist my words yet again I have copied and pasted what I actually said. Not the lie

I said that both Doria and Thomas had made mistakes. Doria appeared to be absent for a big chunk of her childhood living in another state, while Thomas paid private schooling and was very loving towards her. I then said, now Thomas is being a total dick about everything, and Doria has stepped up and become a supportive mother and grandmother. Apparently thats racist.

This post was categorically not racist and was not deleted. So this isn't true.

I've had to change my name from purpledalmatian. Because I'm also accused of being part of a royal clique!

Just report posts that go against guidelines and they will be deleted if they do.

I did but it's still there. Just fed up with everything I say being twisted and distorted. Such cheap tactics and the sign of someone who hasn't got a decent argument to give.

You know perfectly well that you are revising totally what you actually wrote, and that I pointed out the racal connotations of your demonstrably untrue post.

You know that you lied about Meghan not ever talking about her mother.

You know that you lied about Doria disappearing from Meghan's life.

You also know that you were troll hunting me and got your posts deleted.

I am happy to have set the record straight, and am happy to leave it there.

@MrsMaxDeWinter

I so appreciate your posts. You say what I want to say, so well.

On the Black MN board, I so agree with you. There was a poster who was put through hell just for wanting a place she could chat with others. The racism she was subjected to was truly awful. I hope she is still here, she achieved a good thing.

I will say... seeing the dislike of Meghan ramping up the closer we get to the Coronation, it just makes me like her even more. Seeing it on MN too.

A feed popped up between Dan Wootton and Tom Bower. They are both disgusting individuals, and Bower actually said the words "Meghan is such a poisonous vile person for Britian"
FFS. She hasn't been seen for months, she isn't coming to the Coronation, yet these two men were literally tearing her to pieces. I do wonder if some posters on MN tune in to these sort of rants and agree.

One of the most striking things in the "debate" @Roussette is how Meghan is a lightning rod for male commentators of a particular demographic. The people driving the most virulent commentary about her are, in the main, male commentators on TV stations that would be considered "right wing". I am no longer shocked by the words they use about her.

The hounding of that poster was a real low for Mumsnet. As are many of the threads here!

Candace, Lady Colin Campbell?

I hope the majority of posters on this thread will silently disagree with you, and be truthful to themselves at least. But if you really think the top 5% of talented people who are black do not experience racism then I still wonder which corner of the universe you are as it is just unbelievable to think a grown adult who has any awareness of life believes this. It is relative!

I said:

The people driving the most virulent commentary about her are, in the main, male commentators on TV stations that would be considered "right wing".

in the main

Is an English expression meaning for the most part.

But thank you for confirming the right wing bent of the commentators.

Isn't it funny how people who say "Lady Colin Campbell" with a straight face are also the same people who are apoplectic about Harry and Megan's children having titles!

@MrsMaxDeWinter You know that you lied about Meghan not ever talking about her mother.

Yes, this is accurate. The claim was Meghan had never talked about her mother before dating Harry and now suddenly she’s a supportive parent. It’s both disparaging Doria, and making a factually inaccurate statement. I also personally took it to imply Meghan was only appearing to be close to her black mother now she was more famous and with Harry- using her. Which is gross to imply if that was the intention. I also note you mentioned this poster keeps saying they won’t engage with you, said to me also after I actually requested it, and yet the poster still @ us and quotes us and comes to our threads, on yours to troll you and talk about you with another poster on your own thread while repeating ‘please don’t engage with me’ as they trash talk you. All really childish behaviour, designed to get attention and then complain about the attention at the same time.

@MrsMaxDeWinter As you know I don't engage with you so I'd be grateful if you stop tagging and lying about me.

I’m going to say it again

Mumsnet is for fun

it’s not reasonable to accept heartfelt mea culpas or standing ovations for your every post. People don’t have to respond to you as you’d like them to, or indeed at all

that doesn’t mean no one is reading and thinking about what you post