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Harry and Meghan -- Why I dislike them BOTH

947 replies

PipinwasAuntieMabelsdog · 03/12/2022 23:02

I keep seeing threads that say everyone who dislikes the Sussexs is based on some form of racism and I wanted to put my view across. I will set the parameters of my points:

  1. Meghan absolutely did receive racist coverage from sections of the British media.
  1. I believe that there were threats to their safety by far right loons.
  2. I believe they were both unhappy as working members of the RF

However...

I still find them both very disingenuous. They highlight and speak up against the racism of others, whilst failing to address Harry's previous and documented racist behaviour. As a Jew I cannot understand how Meghan can just remain silent about her husbands former mistakes. This makes her seem untrustworthy to me and seems like she will put up with anything for money and cache, whilst arguing (rightly) that racism is totally unacceptable. He keeps saying others need to learn and he is right, but he should acknowledge that he too needed to learn, acknowledge the support needed to help others learn and offer that support to others (including his own family, if needed).

Their attitude towards the public also seems 'off' and ungrateful to me and they seem to collocate the press and the public as the same thing. There is a lot of footage of the public support for them before, during and after their wedding. Yet, apparently, they did not want the big public wedding and the 'UK' was racist towards them. Harry particularly understands the 'deal' between the monarchy and the public and ought to have explained this to Meghan, the comments re the wedding on Oprah came across as quite spiteful and tone deaf. Almost like, 'we suffered through the big wedding for the plebs.' Ditto all the strange behaviour around Archie's birth. They could have followed the Tindall's approach if they wanted to avoid press intrusion.

During financial pressures around the world they are still complaining and not acknowledging their wealth and privilege, whilst claiming to give voice to the needs of those living in poverty and suffering. The Africa interview was a prime example for both of them. It just all comes together to make them feel untrustworthy to me, and makes me dislike them. I do not wish them any ill, but I wish they would acknowledge their fortune and live private, useful lives.

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Shelefttheweb · 04/12/2022 23:59

I was meh about them until the Oprah interview where they claimed to have lied to the country and God (it was a Church service so we should assume some level of respect, if not belief) played us all for fools at their wedding.

^The vows you are about to take are to be made in the presence of God,
who is judge of all and knows all the secrets of our hearts;
therefore if either of you knows a reason why you may not lawfully marry,
you must declare it now^

The marriage service is a legal process and they claimed it was a sham perpetrated on the whole country.

Their actions since going to America just seem self-serving, revengeful and completely lacking self-reflection. The Royal Family aren’t mega-wealthy celebrities with freedom to spend their life playing - they are the Royal Family and there is a contract with the people of the UK that requires something in return for the privilege granted them. Harry should know this.

MarshaMelrose · 05/12/2022 00:14

@Sparklypant I think his popularity might have slipped a bit in the UK but he still has tons of support. He seems feted to me in the US but it's a difficult to gauge because it's such a large and diverse population.

We only have gossip and speculation that H tried to change anything in the documentary and in the book. Obviously I don't know how it will go but they're defintely going to talk about racism (I guess we can conclude that from the getting an award from the sister of the director's partner for their heroic stand against racism). And once that is mentioned, no one on tv news or opinion shows can really criticise anything they say or they'll be accused of being racists too. ITV even sacked Piers Morgan for saying that M lied. They are well-connected and protected within the media. News programmes are always going to publish stories against the RF because they're easy targets that can't fight back.

But the whole programme will be wanting to appeal to the US and further afield. We know they going to go back over colonialist history, etc and there's nothing the RF can really do to address that. So H&M will be held as the freedom fighters of the anti colonial cause which will simply increase their popularity. It's not like Garbus is making the documentary independently. She's making it under their instruction over content. I remember watching a documentary on the women's US football team's fight for equal pay. It was interesting but it was only from their side. They included no interviews from the US football governing body to give balance. But the audience didn't care, they just condemn the governing body without having all the facts. Do we think Gabus is going to give all the facts considering she's employed by H & M? And we know that M was ok with the showing. Yes, the trailer stands at 20,000 likes and 235,000 dislikes. But it's just a trailer and easy to mock. Seeing them pour on the tears about his mum, walking behind the coffin, his cheating father, heroic soldier, fighting for veterans suicidal thoughts, etc, etc, will have people siding with them again. The truth won't matter because people will judge with their hearts, not facts. And by the time facts are revealed, people will have already made up their minds.

Over the years I've seen tons of forecasts of how documentaries or interviews etc are going to go. And it's always something totally unpredictable that sways public opinion.

Diverseopinions · 05/12/2022 06:23

I think it will be better if the Royals back off from modern good causes and just do what their modern constitutional role in a modern democracy requires them to do, and no more. They are the icing on the Christmas cake of diplomacy, not supplying the little nuggets to sustain the health of the nation, such as the trade deals, scattering the international work like currants in the cake. But supplying a nice and validating bit of ceremony to show foreign dignitaries: "Yep. Britain values it's ties with your country." The Queen managed to side -step controversy and show Donald Trump photos and souvenirs of Britain and America's history as allies. It can be done - and she did it by sticking to her proscribed role.

The royal receptions and garden parties are a super way of thanking volunteers for their sterling work in communities and royal visits to community centres to find out what these worthy citizens actual do is a sensible and validating use of their time.

If the Royals stuck with this, nobody, including Harry, can really complain. There was a job to do; Hazza didn't want to do it any more - end of.

Taking the moral high ground, by being woke and espousing right on environmental causes and of-the-moment missions, gives their Royal role a new pretence at relevance. It suggests they are seeking to be agents of their own destiny. That all goes wrong, because of the luxury of their official homes and their personal wealth and privilege. People are always going to say: "What do you know about this?". It is better to stick with being an antiquated but charming hang over from a past age, which has a kind of football mascot role to play in uniting and symbolising the nation's values. They need to be demonstrating that there are fine houses and carriages, but that these really belong to the people. They are actors on the stage of pomp and pageantry, but essentially in the service of the people. As they say, ruling with approval and in licence.

As long as the Royals stick to their proscribed role, I don't think Harry's complaints will stick. Unless he can genuinely say that they were prevented from going here, there and anywhere, it will seem like: " Well, they did leave, didn't they? And they have a nice life now, on the back of their royal life and inheritances. What actually is the problem?"

Eventually, people are going to have to compare the mistakes of the Royal Family with the mistakes made in every family, and say: "Nobody is perfect. Nobody always does and says the right thing."

Time is a magic worker. The more the months and years pass, the more that episode of married life within the RF, will start to look like a tiny sliver of experience in relation to what they are choosing to do independently now. It will be like: "Yeah. That came and went. Stop going on about it."

Their kids will grow up, have their own non-royal identities: coming across like celebrity children, eventually date billionaires or stars, a la the Beckham clan, I guess, and the royal lives will go on, with Charlotte and George being photographed in their school uniforms or at royal occasions and the contrast with the Californian cousins and lifestyle will seem wider and actual, and people will ask of Meghan and Harry: " What are you actually doing? Because you can't go on carving an identity from being an ex-Royal.".

It could be that in ten and fifteen years that Meghan will start to focus on promoting her kids instead of herself, and being a kind of matriarchal Kardashian, and pulling the strings of their lives. That might be more financially rewarding and emotionally stimulating than dragging her in-laws

The new and actual will take over from the what might have been, and I suppose, eventually, the couple might find a project that they actually enjoy and which they want to be their new identity.

LondonWolf · 05/12/2022 06:46

I think you're got it spot on @Sparklypant

MeowwandAnder · 05/12/2022 06:52

Hmm, I don’t know - I DO think the woke argument is a good/worthwhile argument to have. And despite the criticism - the whole media storm is highlighting issues rather than sweeping them under the carpet. Particularly surrounding race, and why we have certain perceptions. I’m not sure for example why Prince Phillip - and his ‘gaffes’ - was seen as ‘loveable’ and somehow comical. Whereas Lady Hussey was addressed as wrong. I think there is a lot of subconscious and racist bias not only in the Royal Family - but in society as a whole. So even though I think there may be a lot of criticism and hypocritical standards aimed at H and M, the debate is good. I also think the Royal Family and their albeit clumsy involvement in environmental issues - IS giving it awareness. If we question - why are they on private jets, then maybe we can apply the same thinking to our own actions.

MeowwandAnder · 05/12/2022 06:53

That was to @Diverseopinions

Diverseopinions · 05/12/2022 07:29

MeowwandAnder · 05/12/2022 06:52

Hmm, I don’t know - I DO think the woke argument is a good/worthwhile argument to have. And despite the criticism - the whole media storm is highlighting issues rather than sweeping them under the carpet. Particularly surrounding race, and why we have certain perceptions. I’m not sure for example why Prince Phillip - and his ‘gaffes’ - was seen as ‘loveable’ and somehow comical. Whereas Lady Hussey was addressed as wrong. I think there is a lot of subconscious and racist bias not only in the Royal Family - but in society as a whole. So even though I think there may be a lot of criticism and hypocritical standards aimed at H and M, the debate is good. I also think the Royal Family and their albeit clumsy involvement in environmental issues - IS giving it awareness. If we question - why are they on private jets, then maybe we can apply the same thinking to our own actions.

I think woke issues are environmental ones. I would never say racial equality is woke as that's a tenet of human rights and a fundamental imperative.

I don't know what to say about history and doing things differently, back in those day. 'It Ain't Half Hot Mum' and similar embarrassing programmes, are wrong, but we allow for how things were. I suppose Prince Philip's gaffes are viewed through the same lens. I can't remember if there was a point in time at which somebody ought to have said, " Retire him", or, tell him to speak to a script, because his method was so completely out of step.

Because of everything being available on line, there isn't the sense of things fading into the past. We can review the passage of whole chunks of history.

MeowwandAnder · 05/12/2022 07:44

@Diverseopinions

Definition of woke : alert to injustice in society, especially racism.
"we need to stay angry, and stay woke

But agree that it need more gravitas…

Don’t know. PP is viewed as a national treasure despite his gaffes - I think there are double standards there. Think he might also have got away with a ‘Where are you from’ in 2022.

Tillylime · 05/12/2022 07:48

The thing is when you’re spoiling for a fight and the other party ignore you then you either have to shut up or keep prodding.
H&M are continually prodding.
And the RF are rolling their eyes and ignoring them.

So if their grievances are genuine there’s not much they can do except complain to anyone who will listen and nobody with a life wants to know anymore.

Tillylime · 05/12/2022 08:00

MeowwandAnder · 05/12/2022 06:52

Hmm, I don’t know - I DO think the woke argument is a good/worthwhile argument to have. And despite the criticism - the whole media storm is highlighting issues rather than sweeping them under the carpet. Particularly surrounding race, and why we have certain perceptions. I’m not sure for example why Prince Phillip - and his ‘gaffes’ - was seen as ‘loveable’ and somehow comical. Whereas Lady Hussey was addressed as wrong. I think there is a lot of subconscious and racist bias not only in the Royal Family - but in society as a whole. So even though I think there may be a lot of criticism and hypocritical standards aimed at H and M, the debate is good. I also think the Royal Family and their albeit clumsy involvement in environmental issues - IS giving it awareness. If we question - why are they on private jets, then maybe we can apply the same thinking to our own actions.

Perhaps because PP was married to the Queen who loved him and understood the sacrifice he’d made to marry her and would not have countenanced him being excluded from her engagements.
I’m pretty sure she told him off in private though.

cinci · 05/12/2022 08:07

tatala · 04/12/2022 04:40

You lot are OBSESSED with Harry and Meghan. This is why they get book deals and Netflix contracts. You hate them but they seem to be the reason you wake up in the morning. Weirdos 😂

And I bet you will watch the documentary and read his book!!

Reminder for other posters ^

You are their income stream. I like them and it's not even people like me who consume their content and read any articles about them. It's you Smile

cinci · 05/12/2022 08:09

ComfortablyDazed · 04/12/2022 07:39

How anyone can justify the amount of vitriol MM received via the UK press is beyond me, Piers Morgan and other right wing press (although I don’t think he believes himself to be right wing) pulled her to pieces and continue to do so. Nobody deserves that, it’s awful.

So why don’t they just GO AWAY and live a private life, out of the public eye..??

No-one seems able to explain this.

Because you pay their bills. Don't pretend you don't click on every Meghan thread instantly, you don't WANT them to go away

MeowwandAnder · 05/12/2022 08:11

@Tillylime

I’d prefer to view him as a human, despite any status, class, who he is married to etc etc - saying unacceptable things about another human.

I’d urge people to watch this. Michael Holding is utterly amazing and speaks beautifully. I think it speaks volumes. It’s too easy to say ‘I’m not racist”. Yes - the Royal Family need to address their conscious/subconscious bias around racism, as we each do individually. We need to address how history has shaped as.

And however clumsy and hypocritical H and M are - the debate is worth having.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=HUOeeGDUdD8

Sparklypant · 05/12/2022 08:14

I was thinking about it last night, if we think about it, as said before his every complaint Is about Meghan treatment, she herself tells us she was suicidal, needed mental health support etc and he says he had to protect his family, family meaning Meghan and rhe children

when they left the proposal was half in half out. They would live in the us, make money but come back and do engagements and split their time. It was a compromise. Half his life half hers. Half his wants half hers

rhe royal family for obvious reasons said no to this, and Meghan was never going to continue to stay here, so they left, and now his actions are because he feels they didn’t understand he had no choice and refused to support him,

the words in their letter, collaborate with the queen, harry didn’t write those, they are Megan’s all day long. To collaborate indicates equality, she thought they were as big as the queen and by going back could have a huge a star life. Clearly that’s not the case, it’s rumoured even Netflix will quietly drop them after this series.

IcedPurple · 05/12/2022 08:17

But the whole programme will be wanting to appeal to the US and further afield. We know they going to go back over colonialist history, etc and there's nothing the RF can really do to address that. So H&M will be held as the freedom fighters of the anti colonial cause which will simply increase their popularity.

What sort of 'anti colonial cause' holds up as 'freedom fighters' two individuals who insist on using the aristocratic titles granted to them by the monarchy, when living as private citizens in a country which rejected monarchy? Who use coronets on their 'personalised stationary'? Who wanted to remain a part of the royal system until told they couldn't have their crumpet and eat it too?

Do we think Gabus is going to give all the facts considering she's employed by H & M? And we know that M was ok with the showing.

Didn't Meghan seem to distance herself from the 'documentary' in an interview?

And yes, they may have some control over the content, but the problem is they are incredibly lacking in self awareness and have a massively inflated idea of their own importance. So they may think they come across really well but others will find them hilariously pompous. Just like in the 'Cut' interview.

Unless the trailer is extremely misleading, which I guess it could be, I find it hard to see how this 'documentary' can gain them new fans.

Tillylime · 05/12/2022 08:24

@MeowwandAnder
I’d prefer to view him as a human, despite any status, class, who he is married to etc etc - saying unacceptable things about another human.
And you're correct but the older RF especially viewed themselves as better than 99%of the population. I'm white, born poor working class. We're all just plebs to the royals.

PP was actually very loyal to the men he served with in WW2 and an old lady I knew got a letter of condolence from him when her dh died.
He was also the first modern royal to understand the importance being in touch with the public.

Madamecastafiore · 05/12/2022 08:42

I think their lives must be very sad to be completely obsessed with how the RF supposedly treated them. Imagine everyday having this playing on your mind to the extent you write books and do interviews about it.

I had no idea Meghan was mixed race, had never seen her in anything or heard of her before she became PHs girlfriend but do think of it were an older man taking the role she has in the downfall of his relationship with his family he would have been called out for being coercive.

Who took the picture of her sobbing when suffering a MH crisis? Why would anyone do this? Could Harry not have called someone to help her, had her admitted to hospital? It all seems a bit staged on their behalf to be able to draw on it latter for sympathy.

Morestrangethings · 05/12/2022 08:43

@MeowwandAnder . good points Meoww.

Shelefttheweb · 05/12/2022 09:07

PP was actually very loyal to the men he served with in WW2 and an old lady I knew got a letter of condolence from him when her dh died.
He was also the first modern royal to understand the importance being in touch with the public.

Nonsense. Why do you think King George VI stayed in London during the Second World War?

Shelefttheweb · 05/12/2022 09:15

Definition of woke : alert to injustice in society, especially racism.
"we need to stay angry, and stay woke

That was the original definition, but like all words their meaning also shifts. It is not about actual social injustice but particular perceived injustices, often from an American cultural perspective. It is also very intolerant of any who do not conform to what is often a very narrow understanding of specific issues.

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 05/12/2022 09:16

I’m not sure for example why Prince Phillip - and his ‘gaffes’ - was seen as ‘loveable’ and somehow comical. Whereas Lady Hussey was addressed as wrong

because you can’t fire the Queen’s husband, so everyone had to pretend it was kind of OK

you can fire a lady in waiting, so people were safe to admit to themselves that what she said was racist, and ironically for someone whose job was basically to make people feel welcome, down right bloody rude

it’s how hierarchies work. No one can be honest with themselves in that environment. You have to pretend that the privileged person who can never be got rid of is basically OK. Some kind of ‘national treasure’

Readinginthesun · 05/12/2022 09:17

IcedPurple · 05/12/2022 08:17

But the whole programme will be wanting to appeal to the US and further afield. We know they going to go back over colonialist history, etc and there's nothing the RF can really do to address that. So H&M will be held as the freedom fighters of the anti colonial cause which will simply increase their popularity.

What sort of 'anti colonial cause' holds up as 'freedom fighters' two individuals who insist on using the aristocratic titles granted to them by the monarchy, when living as private citizens in a country which rejected monarchy? Who use coronets on their 'personalised stationary'? Who wanted to remain a part of the royal system until told they couldn't have their crumpet and eat it too?

Do we think Gabus is going to give all the facts considering she's employed by H & M? And we know that M was ok with the showing.

Didn't Meghan seem to distance herself from the 'documentary' in an interview?

And yes, they may have some control over the content, but the problem is they are incredibly lacking in self awareness and have a massively inflated idea of their own importance. So they may think they come across really well but others will find them hilariously pompous. Just like in the 'Cut' interview.

Unless the trailer is extremely misleading, which I guess it could be, I find it hard to see how this 'documentary' can gain them new fans.

Good post 👏

Tillylime · 05/12/2022 09:18

Shelefttheweb · 05/12/2022 09:07

PP was actually very loyal to the men he served with in WW2 and an old lady I knew got a letter of condolence from him when her dh died.
He was also the first modern royal to understand the importance being in touch with the public.

Nonsense. Why do you think King George VI stayed in London during the Second World War?

What’s PP being loyal got to do with George V1?

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 05/12/2022 09:18

And that’s how you end up with things like Harry thinking it was OK to use racial slurs about his army colleagues. His Grandma was the boss. No one could get rid of him. So people (including those being subjected to racist insults) had to pretend to themselves that it was kind of OK

Readinginthesun · 05/12/2022 09:25

@Diverseopinions

You are absolutely spot on about Africa , in fact he told his friend Dame Jane Goodall that he wanted to raise Archie there .