Harry and Meghan -- Why I dislike them BOTH

[PipinwasAuntieMabelsdog]

I keep seeing threads that say everyone who dislikes the Sussexs is based on some form of racism and I wanted to put my view across. I will set the parameters of my points:

1. Meghan absolutely did receive racist coverage from sections of the British media.

1. I believe that there were threats to their safety by far right loons.
2. I believe they were both unhappy as working members of the RF

However...

I still find them both very disingenuous. They highlight and speak up against the racism of others, whilst failing to address Harry's previous and documented racist behaviour. As a Jew I cannot understand how Meghan can just remain silent about her husbands former mistakes. This makes her seem untrustworthy to me and seems like she will put up with anything for money and cache, whilst arguing (rightly) that racism is totally unacceptable. He keeps saying others need to learn and he is right, but he should acknowledge that he too needed to learn, acknowledge the support needed to help others learn and offer that support to others (including his own family, if needed).

Their attitude towards the public also seems 'off' and ungrateful to me and they seem to collocate the press and the public as the same thing. There is a lot of footage of the public support for them before, during and after their wedding. Yet, apparently, they did not want the big public wedding and the 'UK' was racist towards them. Harry particularly understands the 'deal' between the monarchy and the public and ought to have explained this to Meghan, the comments re the wedding on Oprah came across as quite spiteful and tone deaf. Almost like, 'we suffered through the big wedding for the plebs.' Ditto all the strange behaviour around Archie's birth. They could have followed the Tindall's approach if they wanted to avoid press intrusion.

During financial pressures around the world they are still complaining and not acknowledging their wealth and privilege, whilst claiming to give voice to the needs of those living in poverty and suffering. The Africa interview was a prime example for both of them. It just all comes together to make them feel untrustworthy to me, and makes me dislike them. I do not wish them any ill, but I wish they would acknowledge their fortune and live private, useful lives.

I'm an armchair psychologist as well, and it makes no difference that Meghan and Harry are strangers. I can still observe how they behave and figure out their motivations. it's interesting.

I've noticed that Meghan's weak spot is that she is completely unable to deal with the public's negative perceptions of her. She puts herself out there in a huge way but is surprisingly sensitive to our opinions of her. That is an interesting combination of behaviours. I can empathise with her as nobody likes to be disliked, but interestingly, she never re-directs or modifies her behaviour after the public reacts badly to the latest interview/article/ podcast/dig or whatever. She never changes to please the public but it carries on bothering her.

She carries on telling us subtly how we ought to have perceived her actions. We have to see her through her lens or she is a victim. I think it's a common affliction but not in somebody royal. To use one of her guests as an example, Mariah Carey, does what she wants to do and doesn't care what the reaction is. Mariah is impervious to the public's labels for. She is insouciant to our thoughts on her. She just carries on. Human behaviour is fascinating and people's colour makes no difference to that

You don’t think that media and radio silence might be because the alleged affair is a load of cobblers? If William is in an unhappy marriage he’s a fantastic actor and Kate must be a fantastic actress as well.

I fear your dig about white women may say more about you than it does about anyone else

when you're watching people, they're generally watching you right back

To be fair, I think a lot of royal 'work' is extremely tedious - how much fun is it to have to shake hands with various dignitaries and smile at babies and cupcakes. I don't think Meghan was ever going to adjust to the mould. I do think Harry wanted a way out of kind of life and Meghan provided him with a ticket to do just that. Interestingly though, on Meghan being mixed race - her experiences of being mixed in America would have been wildly different to how the royals would have perceived her - I can absolutely believe that some within the royal circles were genuinely worried about how dark their kids would be and go so far as to say that she would 'taint' the royal lineage so to speak.

But their children would never have been in the line of succession so I don't think that there would have been ''concern'' about the colour of their children. I believe that there were clumsy questions and stupid questions and annoying questions/assumptions.

oh yes

again, the Lady Hussey 'no where are you really from' debacle this week once again brought home for me the attitudes Meghan will have had to put up with from within the royal family. I've said it already on this thread, but I think they're massively racist in a way that most British people just aren't. I can count the people I've met who'd do 'where are you really from', on the fingers of one hand.

the interesting thing that's come out of this thread for me is the picture of how racist Harry himself has been. using racial slurs to his colleague's faces, blacking up, the 'you don't sound like a black chap'. I mean dear oh dear.

and I have little doubt that as a not terribly clever or introspective chap, he was just reproducing the language he'd heard around him from birth from his friends and family.

I sometimes wonder, going back to this time two years ago when Harry tried to get a meeting with the Queen and was told he couldn't see her til the new year (they were already going to Canada for Christmas) perhaps a conversation before they went away and had six weeks to ruminate over being ignored might have changed the course they took.

The Queen might have listened and said ok, you don't have to go to wolverhampton when it's raining. ykwim, just something horse trading that made it bearable.

That was 3 years ago.

But the queen herself went to "wolverhampton when it's raining" many times over the years.

Why on earth should Harry and Meghan get to pick and choose the glam events? If dealing with 'ordinary' people was not 'bearable' for them, obviously best they head off to California and never have to worry about shaking hands with the plebs.

the interesting thing that's come out of this thread for me is the picture of how racist Harry himself has been. using racial slurs to his colleague's faces, blacking up, the 'you don't sound like a black chap'. I mean dear oh dear.

Absolutely! iirc he donned a swastika armband as a costume to a party. Who does that and doesn't stop to think hang on a sec!

I know, I agree, it's the gig, but Harry tried to talk to the queen before going to the Canada and the diarists couldn't fit him in. I do wonder if things might have panned out a little differently if they had talked.

The queen could never have agreed to the half in half out. Wolverhampton in the rain is probably very dull but not to those people in Wolverhampton that have probably spent months preparing for the visit.
and it would have been very unfair to Sophie , Edward etc plus set a precedent for all the other royals present and future who wanted to do similar.
They had to stay or leave and they are the only two choices.
I am now very glad they have left and think the royals probably do too. Yes Oprah, Netflix is embarrassing but the media constantly portraying “rifts” every possible opportunity and then between the cousins for ever and ever is worse.

According to what I've read, it was the queen herself who shot down the 'half in half out' nonsense.

They basically wanted all the privileges of being royal with none of the restrictions. It was never going to happen.

My understanding is that they went to Canada and it was only whilst there that they emailed Charles about their plans . He wanted an email detailing their wishes and Harry , frustrated, contacted the Queen to try to hurry things along but she couldn’t see him until later in January so they dropped their bombshell.

Yes, but who knows the queen could have ''allowed'' them to hire all their own staff, and she could have advised them to give it another year, reassess.

But maybe I'm attributing the queen with super powers! They weren't happy so ''re-framing'' what you know you're not happy with doesn't wash.

One thing somebody upthread said resonated, I do think Kate liked when it was the three of them. But in my opinion the type of woman that would have threatened Kate the most (possibly) would have been one of those real blue blood aristos who consider the royal family a bit ordinary. I'd say to begin with Kate was relieved that Megan wasn't Lady Violet Carruthers=Anstropper de Hapsburg and Cornwall.

@Bluekerfuffle well said.

Yes, but who knows the queen could have ''allowed'' them to hire all their own staff, and she could have advised them to give it another year, reassess.

They were given another year to reassess.

As for 'hire all their own staff', would they be paying them themselves then? Just looking at the news today, they seem to get through staff quicker than Kate gets through Alexandra Rich polka dot dresses.

Yeh, I can see now it was always going to end the same way. There was no magic solution/conversation.

Very good point - I agree with this!

It’s actually the best outcome for the royal family imo as crazy as that sounds. It is an unfixable issue and Meghan was never going to be happy or satisfied and Harry was going to get more and more paranoid and resentful and then feel his children were being treated less favourably Ethan the Cambridges. And the press would be delighted with the constant drip of stories about upset behind the scenes etc.
this way a clean ( ish) break rather than an never ending saga

I wonder if they signed those Netflix and Book deals in the heat of the moment - and as time has gone on they now regret having to deliver on what they signed up to 2 years ago?

I do think his insecurities were already there, a kernel of unhappiness in that he was not free to choose his life, always the one with the relationships he couldn’t make into marriage, always the spare, but he recognised his privilege.

I think Meghan amplified it. She took those insecurities that unhappiness and nurtured it, kept pushing on it, the crying , the need for mental health support that apparently she wasn’t allowed, the desperate unhappines she said she felt and fairly immediately. From all accounts it was already growing at the time of the marriage, she’d already spoken to Oprah about an interview , and the palace said no, they even set up their foundation and trade marked tea towels and rhe like with their images, and the royals again said no, we don’t monetise it, and made the mistake of not taking it seriously enough, they thought they were being welcoming, that it would pass.

I don’t think any one really knew how bad it was until the African tour, where he was angry and rude to journalists off camera, where he used that platform to make that speech about suing the media, where Meghan cried when asked how she was.

harry had no option but to go, by this point he was married and they had Archie. What else could he do. Let her go alone? Take his kid? Live with her crying daily?

meghan thought they’d be global superstars. The cream of the a list. And now harry thinks it’s his families fault, for not recognising he had to go, to do what Meghan wanted as he was married and had a child. So for him, they let him down, and he’s angry, in his moment of need, they turned their backs, left him afloat alone in the USA with his wife, loosing his titles and funds that mattered to him, he just can’t see it any other way.

She was desperately unhappy, he was married with a kid, he had to go with her, protect her, and they said no you’re on your own.

he can’t take it out on her, so he’s taking it out on them.

he was not free to choose his life

Why was he not free to choose his life?

And what life do you think he would have chosen, given that in his 3 years of freedom his main career path is exploiting his royal connections?

I think living in Africa for a year was mooted. One of the biographers said so. One of the writers of one of the recent books that came out, during the last few months. He said that Catherine and Will had lived on Anglesey at the start of their marriage ( not really the same - but cut off and more anonymous) and the Queen and Prince Philip had lived...was Malta, at the start of their married lives.

Harry had always loved the continent and the time he spent there with Chelsey. I think, when single, he'd expressed loving the vast openness plains, outdoor life, and anonymity ( relatively) of being there. Of course, he likes hunting and killing furred and feathered creatures too. In one of the Tom Brady interviews, on their South African tour, Harry had actually said on camera, I remember, that he loved the place, and would like to be based there, but couldn't see how it would be possible at that particular time. ( Perhaps he meant the security headache, as their tour had highlighted how people have to deal with high crime levels).

It was around that time that Meghan went on camera complaining that not many people ask how she is (😂😂). I know. 'People' were probably in shock at the tales and experiences of the brave women who'd been interviewed that day. And generally shocked by life's cruel hand in dealing its cards of destiny.

I imagine that the tour might have been projected as a tentative toe in the water of Commonwealth agency, and a progressive role being based in a freer country, where, at least living in the open countryside, protocols and starchy restrictions are relaxed. Maybe the Palace saw that it would be a means of doing their role progressively and building it up. It has been published, within the last few years, that the Palace had recently genuinely thought of asking Sophie and Edward to go and base themselves in Scotland - no doubt to prove that the monarchy value the Northern territories as being part of Britain and that they, The royals, don't feel England and London-centric, by any means.

Harry probably was emotionally attracted to the thought of a Commonwealth big wig role - in situ. It would have saved Harry and Meghan choosing initiatives which seem to clash or duplicate ones being nurtured by William. With their glamour and Meghan's confidence and aplomb, I can see that it could have been tricky to accommodate the two couples, unless they were always to operate as the Fab Four, which had seemed likely, and might have worked. It would have been a working role, with scope to lead on initiatives. But his wife didn't want it, probably and put her foot down, I expect, and did what she could do prevent machinations behind the scenes.....by going AWOL for Christmas and then sprinting across the border to California, before Covid closed the borders.

I do think his insecurities were already there, a kernel of unhappiness in that he was not free to choose his life, always the one with the relationships he couldn’t make into marriage, always the spare, but he recognised his privilege.
I think Meghan amplified it. She took those insecurities that unhappiness and nurtured it, kept pushing on it, the crying , the need for mental health support that apparently she wasn’t allowed, the desperate unhappines she said she felt and fairly immediately.

I genuinely believe that they fell in love with each other and I don't think their intention was to ever leave. But he is a very thin skinned person and he needs someone to buck him up and point out, that despite losing his mum, he had a pretty privileged life. But, unfortunately, she too is very thin skinned and she also required someone to say, ignore the press, it happens to everyone, just keep going and it will be ok. But their individual insecurities stopped them being mutually supportive and actually made them mutually destructive.

He isn't strong mentally, he's used to being popular with the public but if this documentary goes badly (although I'm personally not of the opinion that it will), and his popularity slips, how will he cope with it? There's a limit to how many of these circulatory charity awards they can receive.

I don't think they'll split up although I don't believe their relationship is as smooth as they portray (whose is?). But, so far, it's been them against the RF. Something to unite them. But I wonder, with their fragile personalities, how they will keep each other going in a healthy way when that focus has been removed and they have to start to battle to make a living in a pretty competitive industry.

I agree they fell in love and I also agree that although they may think they are mutually supportive they are mutually destructive . I think though that had already started before the wedding, they didn’t try to hide they were already unhappy at that point.

I recall one of their advisors saying it was incredibly difficult to work for them, they hired expensive advisors, hugely qualified and capable people and then ignored all advice, they only listen to each other and made bad decisions, that everyone knew was bad, but they’d not hear it, just each other saying it was a good idea.

im surprised you think his popularity hasn’t already slipped though , it’s been a spectacular slip and it’s going to die completely. I strongly believe this documentary is going to go very badly for them. It already is, the trailer alone is being widely mocked

apparently the head of archewelll has now left and they are going to run it themselves. I think that shows a level of arrogance, neither of them are equipped to do this, they simply don’t have the skills and it harks back to the advisor saying it was incredibly hard as they only listen to each other.

it seems though as harry has apparently tried to pull back swathes of rhe content on the docuseries and the book he knows this is going to go very badly wrong, clearly Netflix and the publisher have ultimate control here, and harry and Meghan have done whatever they’ve done and they can’t pull it back.