Page 31 | Member of Household resigns

myrtleWilson · 2022-11-30T12:42:48+00:00

Awful story just broken on twitter about horrendous racist questioning from Lady Hussey to Ngozi Fulani from Sister Space at yesterdays VAWG event. Lady Hussey has resigned. [Edited by MNHQ to correct typo at OP's request]

MsBucket · 01/12/2022 06:48

MsBucket · 01/12/2022 06:47

@Diverseopinions That’s a good point. Why was Lady Hussey at a charity event/reception in the first place? It doesn’t sound like she’s experienced in making small talk or was well-prepared in meeting and greeting a variety of guests. I mean it’s not difficult to ask “And what do you do?” Or “Have you come far?” Or even “How far have you traveled?” But it have been simpler to focus on the very first question, especially as it’s at a charity event, and ask a follow-up question based on the answer. I can only hope that it was a faux-pas but the transcript clearly shows that there were repeated questions which is extremely bad mannered and rude to a guest of any caliber.

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But it might have been*

Roussette · 01/12/2022 06:53

MsBucket · 01/12/2022 06:47

@Diverseopinions That’s a good point. Why was Lady Hussey at a charity event/reception in the first place? It doesn’t sound like she’s experienced in making small talk or was well-prepared in meeting and greeting a variety of guests. I mean it’s not difficult to ask “And what do you do?” Or “Have you come far?” Or even “How far have you traveled?” But it have been simpler to focus on the very first question, especially as it’s at a charity event, and ask a follow-up question based on the answer. I can only hope that it was a faux-pas but the transcript clearly shows that there were repeated questions which is extremely bad mannered and rude to a guest of any caliber.

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She was there because literally days before she was made Head Girl by Camilla or something equally fatuous.

Roussette · 01/12/2022 06:59

Oh and Lady Brooke, Lady Susan Hussey's daughter is now one of Camilla's 'Lady Companions' and she was at the reception where this happened.

DohaDragon · 01/12/2022 07:00

30 years ago when I was 12yo my mum put me on a national express coach on my own from London to Lyons to see friends.

the lady who had the seat next to me was of Chinese appearance. We got chatting and I asked her if she was English and she said no. I then asked her if she was French and she laughed and said no, that she was Chinese. Even at 12yo though I had wondered if she was Chinese once she said she wasn’t English I knew better than to assume/even ask. And I certainly wouldn’t have assumed she wasn’t English/British because of her appearance.

seems bonkers that 30 years later when we should be even more aware that an adult could be so oblivious.

GoingtotheWinchester · 01/12/2022 07:10

Those defending the conversation, have you actually read it??? She didn’t ask once and move on (when Ngozi gave her plenty of opportunities to do just that) she persisted and persisted. Someone used the word interrogation and that’s exactly what it sounded like.

I’m white and have no experience of racism but even I can see how rude, patronising and offensive the woman was being. She’s not a vulnerable old lady - let’s drop that bullshit right now 🙄.

IncompleteSenten · 01/12/2022 07:25

Not accepting your answer to their question and proceeding to interrogate you because you are not white is racism.

Exactly how many generations does a person's family have to be in a country before it is accepted that they are from that country?

Your parents?

Grandparents?

Great grandparents?

Or until your family has mixed and you look whiteish?

Go back far enough and we're all from Africa apparently. Maybe you should all start saying I was born here but my ancestors migrated across the continents...

How can anyone not see this sort of questioning is a big stick of Blackpool rock with racism written all the way through it?

Diverseopinions · 01/12/2022 07:41

Maybe this event will be constructive in pushing the Royals to dispense with the old guard of friends and to place properly -trained civil servants in that role of making a bit of small talk and gathering intelligence to supply the Monarch who is going to participate in the more meaningful exchanges with the delegate/guest.

It's one thing to go in cold and ad. lib questions at a garden party reception for retired sports people, but these guests are daily sacrificing their own privacy and airing their own unpleasant past experiences, in order to help the world become a better place for the modern examples of their young selves. That is the best possible thing you can do with experience. If it was me, fresh on the back of campaigning about social care, for instance ( if I was), I wouldn't be in the frivolous mood to laugh everything off, if somebody said some tactless stuff about autism - my son being autistic. I'd be in a serious mood.

Everyone can make some exception for elderly, possibly slightly senile personnel, but that doesn't go well when really serious crimes are in the front of people's minds, because of the gravity of the cause itself. If Royals are going to venture into kind of political territory - not party political, but nonetheless touching other political matters to do with laws and policy - then they need to get very much more professional in every link in the chain of what they do.

Blossomtoes · 01/12/2022 07:58

If civil servants were placed in that role there would be even more grumbling about cost. Ladies in waiting - or companions as they’re now styled - aren’t paid. The answer is more careful vetting and less sentimentality, not keeping people around when they’re no longer helpful. Lady Hussey should have been retired when the Queen died.

MarieIVanArkleStinks · 01/12/2022 08:36

mathanxiety · 01/12/2022 01:37

The incident made the ABC national news tonight in the US. The headline was that William and Kate arrived in Boston against the backdrop of a racism scandal in a Buckingham Palace, which was then described, cutting to some blurb about Earthshot.

Brand UK isn't looking good.

It boils my blood. We do not elect these people to represent us in any way. Not one citizen of these islands has ever voted for them. They're superior, cf. their lofty maxim of 'never explain, never complain', and they're singularly ill-qualified for the role of interacting with experienced leaders on a global stage.

This alone is problem enough, but on top of that they've been dogged by scandal after scandal. As opposed to representing this country well in the eyes of the rest of the world, they regularly show us up and downright embarrass the UK. As if Andrew wasn't bad enough, now the stink of racism is hanging around them persistently like a miasma, and seems to be following them everywhere.

This isn't the impression of my country I, for one, want our representatives to give. As for making feeble excuses for their constant, monumental failures, WTF?

Can you imagine the response if the Windsors were elected politicians? They'd be out on their arses before their feet could touch the ground.

SinceMonday · 01/12/2022 08:47

Diverseopinions · 01/12/2022 06:25

I've always thought, also, that it's wisest for the Royal Family to stick with their core role of thanking volunteers who have served their communities. In that way, the selection of individuals and all of the research is done by experienced civil servants and careful preparation is made. The Royals are briefed on what they need to do, rather than being given 'creative directorship', as I would call it, of a stage play to show case worthy ( and cool credential) causes.

It isn't right, for me, that the 'companions' didn't know who the guests were and didn't have background information to prompt their small talk questions and to develop an aim for the meeting. But royals having favourite causes and pushing ahead with championing them does risk the integrity of the degree of preparation which can be managed. And this event at the beginning of King Charles' reign, and when Camilla is getting used to the ropes as the top female Royal with full hosting responsibilities.

The failings does highlight how the Queen was a consummate professional in the way she herself performed her role, but then she didn't overstretch the role by making it diverge into championing individual causes.

This might have been a reception, but with such a serious and important good cause at its heart, it is going to have a serious theme and tone. It isn't quite the occasion for, doddery 'ladies in waiting' ( as companions used to be called) going around inventing their own line of questioning. Care and prepared questions would have been better.

Ngozi Fulani has highlighted an important area of DV: that black families fear reporting a black male member, in case he experienced police brutality. Whether or not things have improved since the times that Ms Fulani harks back to in her addresses, it is a valid point, that black women may fear this, and it will make them vulnerable. Some people may never have thought of this angle, without her campaigning. ( I wouldn't have done).I would like and do feel confident that policing is more enlightened in 2022.

This isn't really an event for excusing a dodderer, and with Ms Fulani's negative life experiences and impressions, which she has turned all to something positive, to help others, I wouldn't expect her to be ready to laugh and thinks she is like an audience member at a live comedy show, who gets roped in to be bantered and harangued by the comedian on stage, in the name of good fun. It might look like a history set piece, this event, in a unique setting, but the cause itself is too important for humour and humouring.

Excellent post.

C8H10N4O2 · 01/12/2022 08:48

F4chrissakes · 30/11/2022 22:44

MrsMaxdeWinter and TooBigForMyBoots - I have pointed out down thread that i am white and was brought up in a era of worse racism than even today. Given that background, I do of course understand overt racism, but I do struggle to understand the nuances. I am NOT a racist. For crying out loud, in the recent past, in order not to cause offence I have even, when asked to describe a person, not referred to their colour. When as the only person of colour amongst an overwhelmingly white group, this was indeed their most identifying feature. Rather than taking a pop at me, can you please be a bit more understanding and help me.

Yes you are totally the victim here. You know more about the experience of racism than minority women here, we just all keep getting it wrong and need your guidance. You get to define it after all.

PoC when meeting the casually racist who hold positions of influence should remember that what really matters is to appease and pander to the influential white person. To excuse and justify their racism in case they get a bit upset. Mustn't make the white woman feel uncomfortable after all.

This casually racist woman is a close friend of the Royals, and chosen by two generations of them now to represent them at senior functions. And we are supposed to believe there is no racism in the royal family?

Is your name Susan by any chance?

Squeezita · 01/12/2022 08:54

C8H10N4O2 · 01/12/2022 08:48

Yes you are totally the victim here. You know more about the experience of racism than minority women here, we just all keep getting it wrong and need your guidance. You get to define it after all.

PoC when meeting the casually racist who hold positions of influence should remember that what really matters is to appease and pander to the influential white person. To excuse and justify their racism in case they get a bit upset. Mustn't make the white woman feel uncomfortable after all.

This casually racist woman is a close friend of the Royals, and chosen by two generations of them now to represent them at senior functions. And we are supposed to believe there is no racism in the royal family?

Is your name Susan by any chance?

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I was wondering that. Why on earth is @F4chrissakes saying they were brought up in an era of even worse racism, as if they were the victim?

C8H10N4O2 · 01/12/2022 08:59

seventyp · 01/12/2022 00:03

Perhaps she WAS briefed and that is why she was asking the questions.
The charity is set up for "SUPPORTING AFRICAN & CARIBBEAN
HERITAGE WOMEN AFFECTED BY DOMESTIC & SEXUAL ABUSE"
www.sistahspace.org

And if you want to work for them you are asked for your ethnic background:
docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSevrTIK7iwOX2M7VRxVz49Pxpv6JpeMeZPqE9V0C-R7-eXaCg/viewform

The introduction on Ngozi Fulani's website reads:
"My parent’s came to London from the Caribbean and most of their children were born here." futurehackney.com/ngozi
And her clothing at the event indicates this heritage so it would seem quite reasonable to ask about it.

Smacks of desperation. As I said upthread, black and brown women experience specific difficulties accessing support for domestic abuse - its entirely justifiable to provide black and brown support and counsellors, just as its justifiable to provide female support rather than male.

She was not wearing "ethnic" or "exotic dress". It was leopard print, a popular print in every continent for decades.

If wearing a leopard print skirt or dress is now an indicator of not being British then it casts a whole new light on Bet Lynch. I wonder if she would have been asked "where are you really from" whilst wearing her trademark leopard print and large earrings.

C8H10N4O2 · 01/12/2022 09:14

Blossomtoes · 01/12/2022 07:58

If civil servants were placed in that role there would be even more grumbling about cost. Ladies in waiting - or companions as they’re now styled - aren’t paid. The answer is more careful vetting and less sentimentality, not keeping people around when they’re no longer helpful. Lady Hussey should have been retired when the Queen died.

They get expenses, the ear of the royals and significant influence at court.

Lets not pretend the royals lack power and influence - they have it in buckets, through access to lobby for their pet causes and through the huge land interests and wealth that they wield.

Its often this layer of courtiers which reinforce the status quo and can get in the way of modernising, however since they are chosen by the royals one must assume they are in sympathy with the attitudes and behaviours.

thehorsehasnowbolted · 01/12/2022 09:15

Those defending the conversation, have you actually read it???

We would have liked to be there and listen to what was actually said.

MaulPerton · 01/12/2022 09:18

unconscious bias

So, something that can't be seen, felt, heard or otherwise observed in any way.

Blossomtoes · 01/12/2022 09:28

Can you imagine the response if the Windsors were elected politicians? They'd be out on their arses before their feet could touch the ground.

Don’t be absurd, have you really not noticed the collection of grotesques that have inhabited the government front bench since 2019?

siyanasaysrelax · 01/12/2022 09:36

MaulPerton · 01/12/2022 09:18

unconscious bias

So, something that can't be seen, felt, heard or otherwise observed in any way.

So obviously not real right? Just like maybe the oxygen that we breathe?

PatientZorro · 01/12/2022 09:39

I think it’s time we had an enquiry into HR practices by the royals in general. I am fed up of members of their staff and the public being cannon fodder for their many faux pas.

Why was the enquiry into alleged staff bullying by the Sussexes hidden from public view? What training have the royals implemented to help their staff not to act like imperial relics? What employment protection is in place for an elderly and long standing staff member who has badly messed up. Should she be forced to resign within hours to protect the royals’ reputations without any of the protections demanded by law by employees in any other sphere?

What she said was completely unacceptable and I am not defending her. However I also do not accept that she is solely to blame and I believe her employers must assume some of the responsibility - training, oversight etc. Furthermore I think the employment practices of the royal family, widespread use of non disclosure agreements and failure to train and support staff will inevitably lead to these types of embarrassing and unacceptable incidents.

MarieIVanArkleStinks · 01/12/2022 09:43

Blossomtoes · 01/12/2022 09:28

Can you imagine the response if the Windsors were elected politicians? They'd be out on their arses before their feet could touch the ground.

Don’t be absurd, have you really not noticed the collection of grotesques that have inhabited the government front bench since 2019?

Nothing whatsoever absurd about that observation. I don't hold most politicians in the highest esteem, but they are there by due electoral process and can be removed by the same means.

Yes, rugsweeping of murky behaviour is a major issue and it needs weeding out of the establishment from the top down. But if you're seriously trying to tell me a politician in the situation of Andrew's associations with two convicted sex traffickers, or foreign secretary with the miasma of racism surrounding them like a mist every time they represented us overseas, would survive five minutes in that position, then you're the one being absurd.

AnnunciataZ · 01/12/2022 09:46

We've also not had a general election since 2019 so a bit hard for us to vote them out just yet.

FineTunedTuna · 01/12/2022 09:49

I have been on MN for 12 years and am disgusted by all these faux ignorant 'but it wasn't racist' posters. There must be so many Lady Susan Hussey wannabe types on here, it makes me see MN in a very different light. It is wonderful that LSH has instantly left her post but I dare say she was let down by the palace. She should have been retired when the late Queen died to give way to a new and more modern cohort of royal support staff and volunteers. She hang on and they let her out of a misplaced sense of loyalty and friendship, now they are all paying the price for this favouritism and unprofessionalism so she has had to leave in disgrace. It must feel awful for her and her family, but that cannot be helped. To repair what happened, maybe LSH could personally reach out to MS Fulani, apologise to her and offer to help out and learn.

The royal family are not governing or representing us in a way that is fit for the 21st century: with transparency, accountability, responsiveness, global and local awareness, integrity, anti-corruption, participation, openness, innovation, diversity and ethical conduct. I think we will have to wait for George and Charlotte to grow up and serve the country to really see a change.

PatientZorro · 01/12/2022 09:54

The royal family are not governing or representing us in a way that is fit for the 21st century: with transparency, accountability, responsiveness, global and local awareness, integrity, anti-corruption, participation, openness, innovation, diversity and ethical conduct. I think we will have to wait for George and Charlotte to grow up and serve the country to really see a change.

I could not agree more. Well put.

MaulPerton · 01/12/2022 09:57

siyanasaysrelax · 01/12/2022 09:36

So obviously not real right? Just like maybe the oxygen that we breathe?

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Completely opposite. The oxygen we breathe can be empirically observed. Anything unconscious, by definition, can't be. The concept of unconscious bias has been popularised for political reason but is, in fact, on par with religion, homeopathy, astrology, and other non-empirical knowledge about the world.

seventyp · 01/12/2022 09:58

If the organisation is about heritage it would seem reasonable to ask about that heritage.