Member of Household resigns

[myrtleWilson]

Awful story just broken on twitter about horrendous racist questioning from Lady Hussey to Ngozi Fulani from Sister Space at yesterdays VAWG event.

Lady Hussey has resigned.

[Edited by MNHQ to correct typo at OP's request]

I will making a donation to Sistah Space, the charity that should have been at the forefront of that conversation.

I absolutely adore Fleetwood Mac.

Start your own thread, don't try and derail this one.

Not a bit of both at all. A clear example of the racist, colonialist attitudes that pervade the Royal Family and its entourage. The hair touching alone speaks volumes. That is not the action of a woman who sees the person they are interacting with as an equal.

@F4chrissakes I think it's simpler than that. Intentional or not, the exchange was racist and rude. The point is that asking questions in this way, regardless of intention, is not acceptable. I don't really care if Lady H is a raving racist lunatic or just a bit dozy, it's not acceptable to speak to a British born POC in this way. It's really not that complicated.

Apparently it is very similar to those women in short skirts. you wear "exotic" african clothes unlike the other sedately dressed ladies.

🙏 you're right. The majority of responses see racism for what it is, and that's why I hope this thread stays up.

We are all agreed that racism is 100% wrong

Does this only apply to the UK? I don't think Nigerians will agree with you having just banned non-Nigerians from appearing in TV adverts.

Again, for the eleventy billionth time, if she wanted to know what her heritage was, why didn't she just ask? Why, when Ngozi told her where she's from, in response to the question she asked her, did she then go on to ask her where she really came from, and when she arrived in the country? Her clothing has absolutely fuck all to do with anything. If a white person comes to a function dressed in denim, am I going to then going to question them on their Texan heritage?

Yes this thread should stay. If anything it will highlight the racism that is so pervasive in Society. As other posters have rightly said, it needs to be discussed and not hidden away. The racist apologists/ deniers/ racist themselves on this thread are very visible. It is no longer a surprise to myself that they post the type of things that they do. Their racism should stand for all to see.

An old retainer who, if you dare to look at the DM has "that look" (IMV) of a supercilious old school white privileged person

Blimey! So now you judge people by having 'that look'? Do you judge both of them in the same way? By a 'look'?

Just to respond to this prince Edward of Kent and Prince Michael of Kent are brothers, Edward is the older so inherited the Kent duchy so him and his wife are the Duke and duchess of Kent, Prince Michael doesn't have a separate title so him and his wife are known as Prince and Princess Michael of kent. They are both known as Kent as that was their father's name, the way George, Charlotte and Louis were Cambridge but are now Wales and will stay as that unless they are granted titles of their own

The whataboutery is telling.

Looking down her nose at others obviously. And yes some arrogant and entitled people do that.

"F4chrissakes
We are all agreed that racism is 100% wrong. Problem is that we don't seem to be able to agree what racism is. Were Lady H's comments deliberately meant to be racist and offensive, or was it just a massive gaffe? Was Ngozi setting out to be deliberately offended? Who knows? Probably a bit of both.

How do you set out to be racially abused. The same way women wear short skirts and go out at night with the intent to attract rapists."

I never said that Ngozi was racially abused. I don't know, because as noted above, I'm struggling with the definition of racial abuse. To date I've seen racism much more simply - e.g. as deliberate name calling or predjudice, and clearly I'm wrong because it obviously has way more nuance than that. Is asking someone their background offensive, racial or otherwise? Again I don't know. Did Lady H deliberately mean to offend or racially abuse her? Again, I don't know. But I would seriously doubt it.

If a white person comes to a function dressed in denim, am I going to then going to question them on their Texan heritage?

I didn't expect to find many laughs on this thread, but this is hilarious.

Racism doesn't need to be deliberate, unconscious bias is still racist. The issue is that LadySH treated Ngozi differently due to her skin colour, she wouldn't have badgered me like that although I'm not British born because I have white skin, the issue is the belittling treatment due to the perceived nationality.

It would 'provide context' for complimenting the outfit perhaps in a way that would signal an interest in finding out its cultural significance if the wearer felt inclined to share that.

It doesn't provide any context whatsoever to explain or excuse repeatedly grilling Ngozi on where she's from - really from - where her 'people' are from, why she doesn't know, commenting that she's being 'challenging' about it or incredibly rudely moving her hair out of the way to see her name badge.

Aside from the racism, how can anyone countenance such a lack of basic manners?!

I don't know how many times I can applaud this @MarieIVanArkleStinks

I don't recognise your name so I am not sure if you are regular on Royal threads, but you need to know that there is coterie of posters, among them @LondonWolf @Croque @Readinginthesun who have form for ripping into Meghan any opportunity they get, including on this thread.

So they are unable to see racism in the Royal family, ever, because it forces them to confront the fact that they have constantly rubbished what she has said on the subject.

Also there is a common trope some of them use, which is to quote other black people to support their takes, as @LondonWolf has done here. The idea I guess is that if some black people are saying X, then those saying Y can't be right. It's a view that assumes black people are a monolith, who all speak for each other, while white people are allowed to have different views and disagree with each other. Black people, according to this view, are almost always representational.

They also like to use Michelle Obama a lot, comparing her to Meghan. It's always Michelle, who is the model black woman😂

It is very amusing, because it so transparent.

Oh and @F4chrissakes , when you say you don't care whether someone is black, white or green, you reveal yourself because that is a well known racist trope. No human is green. Or purple. Or polka dot. So when you bring in colours that don't exist in humans, you are effectively comparing people from ethnic minorities with, oh I don't know, aliens I guess. That is othering,

If you are really not racist, you may want to drop that trope, and read why at these links.

slate.com/human-interest/2016/06/why-you-should-care-if-you-don-t-care-whether-someone-is-black-white-green-or-purple.html

www.forbes.com/sites/danabrownlee/2022/06/19/dear-white-people-when-you-say-you-dont-see-color-this-is-what-we-really-hear/?sh=30af2df726d6

www.forbes.com/sites/janicegassam/2019/02/15/why-the-i-dont-see-color-mantra-is-hurting-diversity-and-inclusion-efforts/?sh=7cc089f32c8d

Thanks.

When I first saw the photos of the companions, I thought it was unwise to have this band of advisors, all of a similar age and ethnicity. If they are singularly friends, then their 'appointment' needs no fanfare: I'm sure that Princess Anne, Sophie, Countess Wessex and the Princess of Wales all have friends/ buddies, but these are personal and kept private. All role performing companions ought to be from a trained background and able to contribute some know-how. The Monarchy has shown itself adept at adapting, and it has to shape its role now to reflect diversity, to utilise ceremonial forms to dignify overseas partners - such as the South African President, and to lead on promoting inclusivity in Britain.

If there is to be any role for the companions, then there needs to be measures taken to ensure they have the background knowledge and information to transact their role well.

Lady Susan Hussey ought to have researched and rehearsed what she might say to the delegates ( who, after all, are doing valuable work) going straight into questions about what their organisation has been doing recently and what do they hope to come out of the conference. Lady Hussey SHOULD NOTbe asking invitees who they are: she should have already known.

Age is a thief of so many faculties, and I would like to think that Lady Susan may be struggling with making her meaning clear, and may have wanted to contribute an informed or valid comment about the African traditions of the Northern Nigerian region and knowledge, which Ngozi Fulani's name might have brought to her mind. but for onlookers to interpret it that way would be very generous to the official, and would seem to be turning a blind eye to too much obvious intent to disparage, to whatever degree, e.g. the comment about seeing that it is going to be a 'challenge' to get her answer. Very insulting, as far as we can judge.

As another poster said, if Lady Susan's role was to make polite, ice breaking conversation, rather than to gather feedback on the day, then the first rule of small talk is to go where both parties want to go with the topics - don't persist in your line of questioning when one party is resisting or expressing discomfort.

Ngozi Fulani is clearly articulate, and discriminating, knows a lot about the Queen Consort's favoured cause, and so the best thing that the Palace could do is to offer her the role of one of the companions - a role which should now be adapted should and made into a more professional and expert one.

Her remarks were racist.

Witnesses to the conversation said it was racist.
The Palace called Lady SH's words "unacceptable".
Lady SH has apologised.

How much more will it take for you to understand racism? And that racism comes from racists, not the black woman on the receiving end of racism?

My cousins were born and raised in Kenya. As was their father and their grandparents. Most Kenyans do not recognise them as Kenyan (they have always lived there).

I think the questioning wasn’t ok. Lady Susan should have read the signals and backed off.

However. I have been to many events like this (masses of people from all over the place joined by a common thread) and if people are wearing clothes that are obviously from another country, I too would ask where their heritage was from - regardless of skin colour. I don’t say “where are you from” especially if their accent is obviously British. I ask if they were born in London (meetings generally here in London!) and see what they say. But if someone is wearing a kimono (for example) I might say, “I love what you’re wearing. Do you have Japanese heritage?” And I really wouldn’t expect anyone to be offended (and they don’t seem to be and are happy to talk about what they’re wearing!)

The point is that if you attend a function wearing what might be considered national dress from somewhere else, it will be something that people might ask about to make conversation.

my children are mixed race and don’t have a British surname. They were born here, as was their father (and me!). I don’t find it offensive at all when people ask where their surname is from. I say “their dad was born here but his parents came to the UK in the 60’s from xxxx.” I honestly never take it as racist in any way, but more interest.

I am really fascinated by heritage and where people are from ethnically. Lots of other people must be too because an awful lot of those testing kits are sold. I have a friend with a child who has 4 grandparents from different countries/continents and I sometimes go through it in my head because it fascinates me. I am (as far as I know) English through and through and a bit of heritage from somewhere else seems so much more interesting to me.

Im also mindful of people who are white born and raised in china and Japan and they are absolutely not accepted as being Chinese or Japanese by the people they live alongside.

I understand why people are upset but I also feel that it wasn’t fair for an 83 year olds name to be made public.

If someone says they were born here and are British, I’d leave it there. But, as other posters have said, it might not have killed Ngozi to think “this is an elderly lady, I know what she’s asking and she’s probably just trying to make conversation” and said “I’m British born and raised but my parents were from the Caribbean. Did my outfit give it away! Can I tell you about my charity?”

There is a huge difference between talking about heritage in an organic way with people you know sharing information they are comfortable with and imperial, racist, I-am-considerably-better-than-yow-othering.

@Ch3wylemon I’m referencing talking about heritage to people I haven’t met before at work functions with lots of people from all over the place. I generally only mention it if they are wearing national dress or they have an obvious specific connection that I’m interested in - eg a surname from the same region as my childrens surname (which is not the same as mine)