Harry and Meghan - lies?

[FurAndFeathers]

Ok I’m keeping my fingers crossed this thread will not descend into an unsubstantiated bun fight! Please bear with me.

I’m definitely no Royalist, and am pretty ambivalent about H and M but from the little I’ve read they seem to have been treated pretty badly. However I keep seeing on other threads here that their claims have all be proven to be lies, which would make me much less sympathetic to them. But I can’t find any verification for this.

So I’m asking more knowledgeable posters - what lies specifically have H&M told and where’s the evidence to the contrary please?

thank you

@FurAndFeathers so racism only counts if it’s intentionally malicious?
I didn't say that. You are wilfully misunderstanding me. I said it was ignorance, amongst other things.

You are attempting to convince people that if they've ever show a hint of racist behaviour, which can include asking why a black person straightens their hair, or how? Asking do they find finding the right shade of foundation difficult? Simple curiosity about difference in cultures or body types can be racist?

I asked a friend what she wore under her shalwar kameez? She looked at me and said bra and pants, what do you think? And laughed. So that makes me racist?

So so easy to label people racist.
And is Meghan Markle racist for wearing blood diamonds? At least the royal wearing the dodgy brooch hadn't ordered the murder of one of higher subjects. Markle knew where they came from so couldn't claim ignorance. Unless you're saying she never reads the newspapers? Not that then.

The problem with the royal family is they are not well educated around racism. They just assume they're not and live in a world of ancient tradition which is a pretty ignorant one when it comes to modern perceptions.

Harry and Meghan are doing no favours to tackling racism. They are using it to drive their pity party narrative. Pick some real fights and you will be supported better.

@Sayitagainmyl I didn't say it was a defence. Another one who likes to mislead and wilfully misunderstand. Ignorance needs educating. I'm sure the RF will be doing this.

Are you genuinely defending Lady Susan Hussey’s racist interrogation of Ngozi Fulani? The incident that she herself has apologised for?

wow.

i don’t think I have anything else to say to you. I’m not really interested in having discussions with someone who defends racism.

if you genuinely think the wealthiest most privileged family in the country, and head of the commonwealth, with access to the multiple travel and cultural experiences, and the best advisors and PR are simply innocently naive and unaware of racial sensitivities, then I suspect the cognitive dissonance is strong in you.

they aren’t and there’s decades of evidence of institutional racism with the RF to support that viewpoint.

I think she said a black member of the cast. But there was only one of them (or one of them present that met her) and he denies saying anything of the sort. Reported in the Daily Mail I know which isn't my favourite source but it did directly quote the only person who could have made the comment as saying they hadn't said anything like that.

Re the bridesmaid thing, Tom Bower (a former BBC researcher I think and now a biographer who has never lost a law suit despite being sued by his famous subjects on several occasions as he often writes about people who dominate and control and generally abuse their power) has said that the bridesmaid incident actually involved Meghan bullying Princess Charlotte - comparing her unfavourably to another bridesmaid and not letting her have tights despite her shoes not fitting well and her mum being worried about blisters. This has never been refuted which I think makes it sound pretty convincing. The Spectator had an article on it (sorry, haven't RTFT s this may have already been posted). www.spectator.co.uk/article/did-meghan-markle-terrorise-a-three-year-old/

It wouldn’t surprise me if this was true (or even that they both ended up in tears at different points) I can imagine there being bridezilla moments.

what flummoxes me is that given by dressmakers can’t get a child’s hem right and that the RF can’t get properly fitting shoes

The broadsheets have reported on the couple's behaviour as well as the tabloids and there have been other credible sources too. The BBC documentary The Prices and The Press is available on iPlayer and has some interesting info. Several journalists discuss how they started to hear negative stories coming out of the palace about Meghan within a couple of days of her starting work there and it seems the stories just didn't stop and that they often heard multiple versions of what was more or less the same story coming from different people who may not have known each other. While I would never read the Daily Mail for politics, my impression of how they've covered the M&H story is that they're generally quite accurate. I think they have plenty of sources in the palace which leaks like a sieve. I was sceptical about much of what came out to begin with but most of it has been confirmed in more respectable sources since then (or even in Finding Freedom which Meghan pretty much wrote herself given the level of detail about things like her toileting habits; stories like Meghan announcing her pregnancy at Eugenie's wedding which is also kind of confirmed by photos of Meghan herself with her coat undone past the second button despite only being 2 months pregnant at the time or thereabouts). In fact, I think that photo, which obviously couldn't have been made up by the press was the first time I started thinking that maybe all the stuff in the tabloids was true. It did seem like an extraordinary thing to do to someone who's supposed to be your friend. Especially given Eugenie apparently had to hold back on announcing her wedding which then also had to be delayed because H&M got engaged around the same time and were more senior royals. Fergie responding to H&M officially announcing their baby news by posting photos of Eugenie and Jack on their wedding day also made me believe that she was likely retaliating.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0011wwf

Oh for goodness sake. You don't know anything about me - or the poster you're defending.
When someone makes a hobby of bashing a mixed race woman on the internet, popping up all over the place denying anything is ever racist and defending the likes of Jeremy Clarkson, the persistent misspelling of the actual word racist becomes a bit grating.

I wasn't making fun of her dyslexia, which I was unaware of. I do find it surprising that someone who consistently dismisses other issues and uses misogynistic tropes like 'gold digger' would be so sensitive. I have disabilities myself and I can't be bothered with chips on shoulders about it all tbh.

@FurAndFeathers

the general consensus is that Meghan’s own wedding dress didn’t fit properly. The head designer at Givenchy left shortly afterwards. I don’t think the ‘RF’ was in charge of her wedding party fittings, Meghan and her design team were. Here’s a link about it.

www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/meghan-markles-ill-fitting-wedding-dress-actually-gave-some-clues-about-what-her-royal-style-would-be-like.html/

I honestly find the unnecessary and sexiest scrutiny of women’s clothing pretty depressing

@FurAndFeathers

You brought up the fitting and mentioned you were ‘flummoxed’ and seemed to be implying it was the RF’s fault I was only trying to help ?

And I simply commented that I find the focus on women’s clothing in the media quite depressing.
that's what happens in a discussion forum - we discuss

You presented it as a defence. You then went on to draft a narrative which makes it abundantly clear that you do not understand what racism is and its insidious forms. You even show little knowledge of the long history of racism within the RF, from their involvement with the transatlantic slave trade to support for Nazism, and many more recent examples. And while you’re talking about jewellery, the RF’s wealth grew greatly on the stealing of jewels and cultural items from other nations. Maybe you should petition our monarch for their return if this is a topic of interest to you. It’s certainly a more fruitful activity than doubting the reality of racism in the UK and questioning the experience of those who have been affected by it.

You commented that the ‘RF couldn’t provide properly fitting shoes’ or dressmakers get a hem right, so you were commenting on women and children’s clothing but in a later post you are complaining about other people commenting on women’s clothing ?

Flipping heck, this thread has certainly become bogged down. I can't follow it all but Meghan's wedding dress fit her beautifully and she looked breathtaking on that day. There are tiny little socks that can be worn with shoes if nobody wants tights, they are low cut and don't show but protect the feet. Doesn't everyone know that? Even I have some somewhere and I'm old.

Who is a gold digger? Couldn't be Meghan because she was and is extremely wealthy in her own right, and when she first got with Harry, was making even more money.

There is nothing wrong in asking someone where they come from, I've been asked that or, "Are you local?", as I am accentless and British. However Lady Hussey persisted, asking where the lady's 'people' were from, pushing her hair aside to see her name, asking which part of Africa, etc, etc. I saw interviews with other people who were at the event who said how LadyH wouldn't give it up and it was terribly embarrassing.

I have actually witnessed similar exchanges in the past when I was at work and it certainly was embarrassing.

Sheesh. I've forgotten what the thread is all about. Oh yes, Harry and Meghan: Lies.

I saw the documentary twice and bits of it more than twice. They didn't strike me as liars. The royal family, whom I do like on the whole, have plenty of form for cover ups.

However there was much more to the series than all that, it was interesting and I appreciated the way things were put into historical context, with flashback footage. They are a worthwhile couple who have individually done a lot of good and can continue to do so together.

Sod the Daily(Hate)Mail.

The controversy will pass, H&M have said their bit and can now get on with their lives.

I think the confusion might be coming from the examples of press in the states. Is OP saying she doesn't think this is racist when considering generally negative and critical UK press to be racist just because it's negative and critical? I don't know - I've become confused about what people have become upset about. I think people are saying that there was very little obvious racist headlines from the UK press - the Compton one and then a few articles where there were one or two words that were arguably racist but not much more than that unless you consider stuff racist just because it's critical and negative and she's mixed race. If you believe the latter then yes, surely we do have to see all examples of negative and critical press in the foreign media as also being racist?

I find the constant scrutiny of women’s clothing by the press misogynistic - so what if someone has a wrinkled hem etc. men’s clothing is never critiqued in the same way

that doesn’t mean I can’t be surprised that one of the wealthiest family in the world can’t seem to find shoes that fit a small child 🤷‍♀️

I’m baffled thats so difficult to comprehend!

And no I never commented on women’s clothing. I simply expressed surprise as to the cause of the alleged disagreement between Meghan and Kate, which was apparently to do with children’s bridesmaid dress hems and ill fitting children’s shoes (not women’s clothing), in such a wealthy family.

@FurAndFeathers
'men’s clothing is never critiqued in the same way'

Men's clothing is often criticised. Obviously when men tend to wear suits, there is not a lot to criticise, but remember Tony Blair's purple suit.
And Michael Foot's donkey jacket.
These are just the top of my head, but I'm sure there are others

Out of criticism of clothing it is probably 1% criticism of men and 99% women!

Michael Foot's donkey jacket was 40 years ago!

I can’t imagine Meghan taking advice from anyone !

Aye, sure it is - two examples - one from the 80s and the other I can’t even find in Google it’s so obscure.

you basically just proved my point for me. Thanks!

I do remember lots of comment on Kayne West’s designs and clothing choices

Boris Johnson’s clothing often came in for stick - especially his casual wardrobe ?

Would these be recent enough ?

I do remember Brad Pitt recently wearing a hideous outfit to a film premiere but I don’t buy fashion magazines or read tabloids so wouldn’t have the widest choice of examples

www.telegraph.co.uk/luxury/mens-style/dont-worry-boris-got-running-outfit-sorted-doesnt-include-fish/

variety.com/2022/film/news/brad-pitt-skirt-bullet-train-premiere-1235331233/amp/