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The royal family

Harry and Meghan - lies?

1000 replies

FurAndFeathers · 28/10/2022 19:51

Ok I’m keeping my fingers crossed this thread will not descend into an unsubstantiated bun fight! Please bear with me.

I’m definitely no Royalist, and am pretty ambivalent about H and M but from the little I’ve read they seem to have been treated pretty badly. However I keep seeing on other threads here that their claims have all be proven to be lies, which would make me much less sympathetic to them. But I can’t find any verification for this.

So I’m asking more knowledgeable posters - what lies specifically have H&M told and where’s the evidence to the contrary please?

thank you

OP posts:
Thread gallery
18
AuroraCake · 02/11/2022 22:28

But there wouldn’t be an Americanised vocabulary around that. More a SMART approach to various treatments and interventions. Specific, Measurable, Achievable, Relevant, and Time-Bound. Not so much a let’s talk about our issues but let’s focus on what treatment…implementing research practice.

MidnightConstellation · 02/11/2022 23:12

Morestrangethings · 02/11/2022 22:16

I’m an older woman that thinks Megan has been treated very unfairly. She seems perfectly nice to me going by her podcast. She’s good at it all ready. And getting better as she finds her feet in the medium. Harry in ‘the me you cannot see’ produced by Oprah Winfrey and Harry is impressive. It’s a good resource for those seeking help with their mental health, imo. Harry and the other guests on the series have very valuable insight on the matter.

When I just listen to what Harry and Meghan have to say it’s easier to form a truer impression of them, I find. Rather than letting myself be influenced by other people through the medium of interviews and profile pieces.

The mental health series ‘The Me You Cannot See’ rarely gets a mention on mn. Is that because it’s topic is mental health and this is a British forum and the British don’t like to talk about mental health? I’ve seen ill mental health portrayed as a weakness on one of these Royal threads.

Were you unaware of Heads Together? I don’t know how you got the idea mental health is a taboo in Britain.

Morestrangethings · 02/11/2022 23:42

AuroraCake · 02/11/2022 22:28

But there wouldn’t be an Americanised vocabulary around that. More a SMART approach to various treatments and interventions. Specific, Measurable, Achievable, Relevant, and Time-Bound. Not so much a let’s talk about our issues but let’s focus on what treatment…implementing research practice.

I started to answer your question but found I was writing a novel on mental illness. No explanation is going to be as informative as watching it. Apple offers a free 7 day trial, I believe.

Coronateachingagain · 03/11/2022 00:42

Diverseopinions · 02/11/2022 15:18

I define press coverage of Meghan and Harry in two ways. Firstly, there is the title tattle and comment that attaches itself to those who put themselves in the public eye. Celebrities endure this as the cost of fame. People in the press routinely say that the beautiful and elegant Tess Daly on Strictly is dull. She has to shrug that off. Celebrities have to find a way of maximising their strengths, attending to the weaknesses and getting advice on how to develop their skills.

Some people are famous and their appearance attracts comment, notwithstanding they didn't put themselves in the public eye to get scrutinised for their looks. On Mumsnet, posters say they wouldn't shag Boris Johnson, impervious to his possible hurt feelings.

Then there is the commentary about the royals. For instance, people would post in the comments section of newspapers that they couldn't believe Prince Charles would choose Camilla over Diana. I expect performance comedians made similar gags. The press reported that Carole Middleton hadn't gone down well with the Queen, initially, for doing things like chewing gum and mini-pointing, when seated with Catherine, at a ceremonial occasion ( to do with William, I think). Even serious journalists like Sarah Vine have kind of defended Beatrice and Eugenie's looks ( not just their dress sense) and said how hard it must be for them not being as beautiful as Catherine - ticking off their strengths, like their great hair, I recall.

So much for tittle tattle. All of the above comments would have upset me, if I had been any of those people, because the comments obviously hit to the heart of what those individuals would like to be - elegant; accepted; loveable and twist the knife.

Then you have Meghan writing on the Sussex web page that they are going abroad to carve out a progressive new role within the British Royal Family. A few digs too - at the press. They didn't tell the Royal Family first. They didn't allow the Palace to announce the news. It was factually wrong because they were not going to be allowed to pursue royal duties in the way they chose. This had never been done before. It's like going into work at a big corporation and emailing the client list that you're going to be doing a semi-independent role - your way, from now on. What would everybody's line manager say and do on being forwarded that email by a client?

Then the Queen gets dissed for her use of the term 'service'. 'Wait' it's as if Meghan, trot back. 'You haven't got a monopoly on service, Your Maj. Who d'you think you are? Harry and I can do service - and more relevantly'.

I guess, any onlooker would think Meghan had taken the royals for fuddy duddy has-beens who were just ripe to be toppled from their perch and replaced by the cool younger royals. Not the serving ones, who no one follows, but the new hip royals.

To many people it is just so obvious that press criticism of Meghan is based on her extreme audacity and her problem-causing for the Royal Family, who do have a limited role to play in supplying the glue which binds community harmoniously - or so many think.

To many people it is just so obvious that widespread criticism of Meghan is based on her extreme narcissism and negativity and her self- serving initiatives which do not have the smallest role to play in supplying the glue which binds a community harmoniously - despite what she and her husband would like to think.

MidnightConstellation · 03/11/2022 05:36

Coronateachingagain · 03/11/2022 00:42

To many people it is just so obvious that widespread criticism of Meghan is based on her extreme narcissism and negativity and her self- serving initiatives which do not have the smallest role to play in supplying the glue which binds a community harmoniously - despite what she and her husband would like to think.

Great posts, both.

Coucous · 03/11/2022 05:42

@Morestrangethings It's because there's very little to criticise. In Britian, people love to hate and whinge about everything. There is unfortunately little to criticise on someone speaking about mental health.
I am sure someone would rather come up and say he's mentally unstable like his mother - it's been said before

MissMarpleRocks · 03/11/2022 06:24

wordler · 02/11/2022 21:14

Well I’m the first to disagree with @Roussette on a LOT of things but that’s not the same as saying something nasty about one of the kids. It’s certainly not ‘laying into’ them.

I think talking about one’s opinion of the system as it relates to the kids is fine.

I agree. Roussette wasn’t being nasty about Prince George but the system. Completely different imo.

Re slavery my ancestors must have been enslaved or slave traders or both due to the location. They must at some point been both persecuted & persecutors. Some of my female ancestors will almost certainly have been raped.

I don’t feel I should flagellate myself that they were oppressors or cry that they’ve been oppressed.

I look at it instead as a Rich history that has helped create me & the country that has risen up. Even though that country is still divided in two.

But that’s my opinion I know others see things differently as they have every right to.

AuroraCake · 03/11/2022 07:07

Morestrangethings · 02/11/2022 23:42

I started to answer your question but found I was writing a novel on mental illness. No explanation is going to be as informative as watching it. Apple offers a free 7 day trial, I believe.

Why would I want to watch it? I know a huge amount about the topic already. I have no interest. The BBC recently did, and continue to do, amazing programs each focusing on a well known person who has, or had suffered. I have apple but never interested me to watch a program about a topic I know incredibly well.

it isn’t mental illness the UK doesn’t understand, there is just no interest in that program. Because there isn’t a question over it, treatment and early intervention is a stable.

AuroraCake · 03/11/2022 07:12

Coucous · 03/11/2022 05:42

@Morestrangethings It's because there's very little to criticise. In Britian, people love to hate and whinge about everything. There is unfortunately little to criticise on someone speaking about mental health.
I am sure someone would rather come up and say he's mentally unstable like his mother - it's been said before

Or it’s not that interesting. Diana was open about her struggles with an eating disorder. Harry had been open too. I think phrases like mental instance is not helpful. Have suffered with their mental health is probably better. But who doesn’t? We all get colds and sometimes we all feel blue. Some people suffer more seriously…just like physical health. Some things are chronic…just like physical health. In fact a metal physical ailments are caused, or significantly impacting, by distressed mental health.

AuroraCake · 03/11/2022 07:12

Mentally unstable,
.

MaulPerton · 03/11/2022 07:16

Marulatree · 02/11/2022 21:42

@MaulPerton

Expansionism, racism and gender are part of the fabric of every single society on earth.

I don’t know what point you’re trying to make with this statement. What I do know, however, is that not every nations’ wealth was acquired and built on the backs of those they colonised and enslaved, or through the act of pillage and the theft of land, people, and historic items. If you think the history of every nation pertains to such unatoned crimes then you really need to consult a few more history books (and authoritative ones at that).

Bringing it back to the royal family, the British monarchy was central to the establishment, expansion and the maintenance of the British Empire and the transatlantic slave trade. Even Prince William acknowledged this deplorable period of British history when he said “I strongly agree… that the appalling atrocity of slavery forever stains our history” during an address to Jamaica’s prime minister earlier this year.

He failed, however, to account for the role of the monarchy during this time. Perhaps this is unsurprising since he, along with the rest of his family, continues to benefit from the spoils accumulated.

So, you are putting Britain at the top of the 'expansionism, racism and gender' (to paraphrase a pp) hierarchy? On what basis? What are your metrics? Is it number of people killed? The US war machine expansionism may be a contender among several others. Is it land area seized? Russia, being the largest country in the world by land area would suggest that they were pretty good at expanding. Racism, patriarchy, wealth inequality - present everywhere.

Expansionism (and its attendant racism, inequality, sexism) is part of the human psyche that cannot be eradicated. It's better to learn about it and try to understand it or else it will destroy the lives of those living in the present.

Serenster · 03/11/2022 08:04

Interesting discussion about expansionism, conflict and exploitation - it is obviously a huge part of human history from ancient to modern times. I was pondering whether I could come up with any civilisation, ethnic group, or (more recently) state that hasn’t been involved in this at some stage and admit I could not think of any. I’d be genuinely interested to hear of examples that people have!

Anyway, a point that came up further up the thread - posters pointing out that Meghan was criticised on Mumsnet when she got engaged to Harry. I was surprised they were surprised. As these threads surely clearly demonstrate, plenty of posters personally dislike all and any members of the royal family simply because they are part of an institution that they have no time for. And so anything about them (their intellect, their public speaking skills, their actions, their clothes, their holidays, their children, their living/funding/transport arrangements etc etc …) is clearly seen as justified of criticism. As the fiancée and new member of the family, with a huge amount of publicity and coverage of that process, of course there was going to be criticism of Meghan, the money spent on her wedding, the wall to wall coverage and fawning over her from people with those views. Why would anyone have expected anything else (and why should they? Everyone is entitled to express their opinions).

Over time what happened seems to have been an interesting switch - many people who are anti the royal family are now supporters of Meghan and Harry because they see them as lifting the lid on a toxic institution, and some people who started out pro Meghan are now have no time for because her actions over time have shown they were wrong to have thought so highly of her. A fascinating trajectory on both sides!

But I cannot see any reason why anyone could say - well, people criticised her right from the start. Of course they did! She was publicly and willingly joining herself to everything they loathe in the glare of huge publicity.

Serenster · 03/11/2022 08:13

And another point about views of Meghan and her conspicuous consumption following her engagement and marriage - this has always struck me as a culture clash in the purest of senses.

If you’ve never read social anthropologist Kate Fox’s excellent book “Watching the English” I would highly recommend it. She set out to discover the hidden, unspoken rules of English behaviour – the unofficial codes of conduct that cut across class, age, sex, region, sub-cultures and other social boundaries.

One of the rules that she spoke about was the well-established distaste for money-talk in everyday social life. She says “you never ask what someone earns, or disclose your own income; you never ask what price someone paid for anything, nor do you announce the cost of any of your own possessions. In social contexts, there is a sort of ‘internal logic’ to the money-talk taboo, in that it can be explained, to some extent, with reference to other basic ‘rules of Englishness’ to do with modesty, privacy, polite egalitarianism and other forms of hypocrisy

She also says that “The English are no less naturally ambitious, greedy, selfish or avaricious than any other nation – we just have more and stricter rules requiring us to hide, deny and repress these tendencies”.

I have always found this to be very true. It is a culture that American/Hollywood raised Meghan was always going to run smack into - the woman who openly held a “Sayonara Zara” party when Suits was renewed, to mark the fact that she’d never have to buy high street clothes again, was not likely to understand that she was moving into a society where this was something quite extraordinary, and where her (natural) desire to demonstrate the impact of her newly enhanced budget on her wardrobe and lifestyle would not be celebrated, but criticised. It’s interesting that she didn’t seem to want to make any effort to learn and adapt to this (or rather she did at first I think, wearing a a few M&S pieces, but she gave up on this pretty much as soon as she was married).

tatala · 03/11/2022 08:42

I loved the latest episode of Archetypes, Meghan has a voice made for podcasting. I'm not a mom or wife so I couldn't relate to all of the pressures but it was a good listen all the same.

tatala · 03/11/2022 09:12

MaulPerton · 02/11/2022 09:01

Meghan is not funded by the British taxpayer

We don't know that for certain and never will, which is why a question mark will perpetually hang over this particular point.

A question mark that exists in your head while Meghan lives her life 😄

MmeArnault · 03/11/2022 09:24

Such good posts @Serenster

Croque · 03/11/2022 09:36

"They're picking on me, Miss!" 😂
Seventy going onto seven.

MaulPerton · 03/11/2022 09:36

MmeArnault · 03/11/2022 09:24

Such good posts @Serenster

Indeed. Enjoying them very much.

tatala · 03/11/2022 09:47

Serenster · 03/11/2022 08:13

And another point about views of Meghan and her conspicuous consumption following her engagement and marriage - this has always struck me as a culture clash in the purest of senses.

If you’ve never read social anthropologist Kate Fox’s excellent book “Watching the English” I would highly recommend it. She set out to discover the hidden, unspoken rules of English behaviour – the unofficial codes of conduct that cut across class, age, sex, region, sub-cultures and other social boundaries.

One of the rules that she spoke about was the well-established distaste for money-talk in everyday social life. She says “you never ask what someone earns, or disclose your own income; you never ask what price someone paid for anything, nor do you announce the cost of any of your own possessions. In social contexts, there is a sort of ‘internal logic’ to the money-talk taboo, in that it can be explained, to some extent, with reference to other basic ‘rules of Englishness’ to do with modesty, privacy, polite egalitarianism and other forms of hypocrisy

She also says that “The English are no less naturally ambitious, greedy, selfish or avaricious than any other nation – we just have more and stricter rules requiring us to hide, deny and repress these tendencies”.

I have always found this to be very true. It is a culture that American/Hollywood raised Meghan was always going to run smack into - the woman who openly held a “Sayonara Zara” party when Suits was renewed, to mark the fact that she’d never have to buy high street clothes again, was not likely to understand that she was moving into a society where this was something quite extraordinary, and where her (natural) desire to demonstrate the impact of her newly enhanced budget on her wardrobe and lifestyle would not be celebrated, but criticised. It’s interesting that she didn’t seem to want to make any effort to learn and adapt to this (or rather she did at first I think, wearing a a few M&S pieces, but she gave up on this pretty much as soon as she was married).

PUHLEASE

If the Brits truly cleared about conspicuous consumption they'd throw a fit about Kate owning a similar styled Alexander McQueen coat dress in 20 styles or colours - but they don't care.

Wearing jewellery worth tens of thousands of pounds, but they don't care.

The tax payers spent millions on a driveway, renovating Kate's kitchen at Amner Hall TWICE, moving a tennis court a few feet, planting trees so their private jet trips to/from KP weren't seen. There was no outrage at the cost of that.

There is not a single thing Meghan did that Kate hadn't done before. So SPARE me.

I'm glad Meghan can spend however much she wants on clothes now, this faux outrage and pretence that she was so un-british is ridiculous.

Croque · 03/11/2022 09:55

Serenster · 03/11/2022 08:13

And another point about views of Meghan and her conspicuous consumption following her engagement and marriage - this has always struck me as a culture clash in the purest of senses.

If you’ve never read social anthropologist Kate Fox’s excellent book “Watching the English” I would highly recommend it. She set out to discover the hidden, unspoken rules of English behaviour – the unofficial codes of conduct that cut across class, age, sex, region, sub-cultures and other social boundaries.

One of the rules that she spoke about was the well-established distaste for money-talk in everyday social life. She says “you never ask what someone earns, or disclose your own income; you never ask what price someone paid for anything, nor do you announce the cost of any of your own possessions. In social contexts, there is a sort of ‘internal logic’ to the money-talk taboo, in that it can be explained, to some extent, with reference to other basic ‘rules of Englishness’ to do with modesty, privacy, polite egalitarianism and other forms of hypocrisy

She also says that “The English are no less naturally ambitious, greedy, selfish or avaricious than any other nation – we just have more and stricter rules requiring us to hide, deny and repress these tendencies”.

I have always found this to be very true. It is a culture that American/Hollywood raised Meghan was always going to run smack into - the woman who openly held a “Sayonara Zara” party when Suits was renewed, to mark the fact that she’d never have to buy high street clothes again, was not likely to understand that she was moving into a society where this was something quite extraordinary, and where her (natural) desire to demonstrate the impact of her newly enhanced budget on her wardrobe and lifestyle would not be celebrated, but criticised. It’s interesting that she didn’t seem to want to make any effort to learn and adapt to this (or rather she did at first I think, wearing a a few M&S pieces, but she gave up on this pretty much as soon as she was married).

I agree. It's contractual. You put in the years of service and quietly enjoy the rewards of the family. Plundering those resources while openly trying (and so far failing) to inflict damage upon the hand which feeds you is utterly bizarre.

tatala · 03/11/2022 10:06

Croque · 03/11/2022 09:55

I agree. It's contractual. You put in the years of service and quietly enjoy the rewards of the family. Plundering those resources while openly trying (and so far failing) to inflict damage upon the hand which feeds you is utterly bizarre.

This is comical. A cost of living crisis and sewage in the rivers. The RF have pulled a blinder, I love it for them.

May H&M continue to make their money 😄

MaulPerton · 03/11/2022 10:15

This is comical. A cost of living crisis and sewage in the rivers. The RF have pulled a blinder, I love it for them

Of course they have but given that every other global citizen is battling the same issues, I guess it's just a case of 'choose your empire'.

tatala · 03/11/2022 10:32

MaulPerton · 03/11/2022 10:15

This is comical. A cost of living crisis and sewage in the rivers. The RF have pulled a blinder, I love it for them

Of course they have but given that every other global citizen is battling the same issues, I guess it's just a case of 'choose your empire'.

Once again, I love this for the RF. Convincing yourself that other nations (or perhaps the media machine have convinced you) live with anything as useless is funny to me.

May William and Kate take as many holidays as they want while some Brits have to choose between eating or heating.
May the RF take as many private jets as they want while they preach environmentalism.
May Prince Andrew pay off as many of his alleged victims while he receives round the clock security.
May the RF have access to the best health care while Brits wait hours for ambulances.

Long live the King!

milti · 03/11/2022 10:37

Another bestseller ?

Harry and Meghan - lies?
Marulatree · 03/11/2022 10:45

MaulPerton · 03/11/2022 07:16

So, you are putting Britain at the top of the 'expansionism, racism and gender' (to paraphrase a pp) hierarchy? On what basis? What are your metrics? Is it number of people killed? The US war machine expansionism may be a contender among several others. Is it land area seized? Russia, being the largest country in the world by land area would suggest that they were pretty good at expanding. Racism, patriarchy, wealth inequality - present everywhere.

Expansionism (and its attendant racism, inequality, sexism) is part of the human psyche that cannot be eradicated. It's better to learn about it and try to understand it or else it will destroy the lives of those living in the present.

The past acceptance of colonial atrocities perpetuated by the British Empire explains why racism and prejudicial attitudes are still firmly embedded within our society today. And that’s why it’s important not to be dismissive (by attempts of deflection or statements similar to ‘well, that was then’ or ‘we’re not the only ones’) or even ignorant of Britain’s dark past as it’s vital to understanding why certain prejudices and inequalities still exist today in Britain. As you say ‘It's better to learn about it and try to understand it or else it will destroy the lives of those living in the present.’ It does and continues to do so.
It’s a shame (this is a diluted representation of my genuine attitude) that such lived experiences are so readily dismissed by some on this platform.

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