Why are H&M "less important" now?

[thefoggiest]

Let's not make this a bashing thread!
But in another thread yesterday it occured to me that the way I see it, I just get the sense that with the queens death they almost drop a rank. But that doesnt make sense? If anything shouldn't they now feel more important? Now that her majesty has gone it just feels like they become more distant somehow. Could it be to do with the passing of a generation, so they are no longer "the youth"?

By the way this isnt based on any facts or anything I've read, just a feeling on it. Can anyone explain? Am I right or wrong?

I'm not sure I call the Queen's Funeral a 'team-building jolly' but I know what you mean! 😁

@JustLyra - It would be interesting to see how the British public responded to the suggestion of Catherine, who the press still steadfastly refer to as Kate Middleton, as Regent.

It would be no worse, surely, than having Camilla as Queen Consort? She carried on an affair with Charles for years when he was married. At least Catherine is morally head and shoulders above Camilla?? She always conducts herself well. I think the public like her.

Why not the Princess of Wales ? But TBH it's vanishingly unlikely to happen isn't it ?

This plays a major part in it, they’ve actively distanced themselves from Charles and William.

They can’t go back on the things they’ve said.

There could be reconciliation but they don’t seem to want that as much as Charles and William do.

I find myself wondering how Harry's family have privately been interacting with them. If I were in the RF I'd be sooo careful what I said in case it ended up on Oprah. Imagine all family conversation stopping when you enter a room. I wonder how he's dealt with that!

They resigned from working life with the royal family before the Queen became ill. It is also my understanding that they were in the UK for commitments, but had refused to visit with Charles in Scotland, and where they could be expected to visit the Queen/Grandmother. They didn't go, from my understanding.

So to my mind, they have made their bed and I'm totally over opinion pieces being written trying to turn events from what existed and trying to propose conversation that the writer is only speculating about. There has always been a pecking order on how things are done in the Royal Family and this is no different...

Shite needed to be sorted out before now, and will still be afterwards. I'm sure there will be increased interest in further editions of the book and podcasts now..

The RF is not a good look - Harry doesn't need to say anything, Elizabeth's death alone is proof of that. See how many people especially many colonies - and there were 55 + - don't care for the RF. They need to modernise the institution quickly - such a missed opportunity if Charles does not use Harry and Meghan to his advantage.

i think we are seeing two very different things here so will have to agree to disagree.

I think that it is very significant that they did not visit the Queen when she was clearly v frail (ill?) when they were over on engagements.

Do we know if they chose not to or were kept away?

They last saw her at The Jubilee in May / June and it would be unusual not to pop in to see a v elderly and frail family member if you happened to be on this side of the pond.

Or maybe there were plans to visit after their prior public commitments finished?

Love it!

I thought this Thread was about H&M the shop too
😂

I thought this was about the clothes shop, H&M! Came on to see what the fuss was about 😄

I di wonder how Archie and Lilibet will feel when they are older, knowing their grandad is king but they were denied the experience of growing up in the family - they maybe quite grateful l mean they are hardly slumming it in Californua but l guess plenty of parents move away from grandparents and survive it

Lady Sarah Chatto and Lord Linley were not the grandchildren of a living monarch, they were the Queen’s niece and nephew, hence why they weren’t titled Prince and Princess

Every time I see H&M I think it's the shop

That’s not why they weren’t titled Prince and Princess. They weren’t titled that way because it goes through the male line. They took their titles from their father so were titled as children of an Earl.

Grandchildren of a deceased monarch are still entitled - several of George V’s grandchildren were born, and titled, after he died including Prince William and Prince Richard of Gloucester (the latter is the current Duke), and Princess Alexandra and Prince Michael of Kent

Prince George isn't a small child any more, and so he (and his sister, and possibly his brother) are starting to get more attention.

If William should for any reason die relatively young (like my own DF in early 60s for example) then he might be King within 20 years. He could have a very long reign. William is going to be another middle-aged or, probably, elderly king.

Lady Sarah Chatto and Lord Linley were not the grandchildren of a living monarch, they were the Queen’s niece and nephew, hence why they weren’t titled Prince and Princess

As @JustLyra says, that’s not so - George V issued Letters Patent in 1917 (I think to slim down the monarchy then!). HRH went down the male line as far as grandchildren. So - strictly speaking, Edward and Sophie’s kids are and can call themselves HRH Prince James of Wessex and HRH Princess Louise of Wessex. They’ve just chosen the titles of the children of an Earl.

As an aside - presumably this now applies to Harry & Meghan’s kids? All those lies about the kids not having titles because of her skin colour (they were great grandchildren and therefore not entitled at birth); since the death of the Queen, presumably they are entitled to use the Prince/Princess of Sussex titles as of now? They don’t have to wait for Charles to bestow them.

I get the feeling that the RF have taken advice on how to manage the situation, at the beginning they were reacting more to Harry and Meghan than we were used to. I know that sounds strange, but the RF left a lot of space for the media to "interpretate" the relationships. There is less space now, less ways to criticise the RF. Now the RF ensure Harry and Meghan have suitable roles and they are able to put on a public face (The walk around with the four royals, Harry standing in waiting in his uniform etc).

I believe they are ensuring that Harry is treated fairly and minimising any opportunity for the media to manipulate the situation, and therefore the media is starting to get bored. They see how this will play out. Harry and Meghan have already told a great deal about their experience, and it has been less reliable than some hoped. It's not that they have become less important in the RF. (They became less important when they became non-working royals), it's just that they have become less interesting as well as less important.

This isn't good for their brand however, although I am sure they will recover and do fine.

Harry’s downward trajectory will be even more obvious once King Charles passes away, in theory that could be the final reason to come to the U.K. apart from the odd extended family member, and although it could be decades away.
It will be interesting to see what will happen at the coronation.

I imagine Harry when he quit did not really envisage the extent of his difficulties still attending family occasions/state occasions.

There is a fork in the road now, he either accepts the olive branch and accepts some kind of cease fire. Or he continues on the destructive path his was on, ignoring his grandmother’s dying wishes and loses any remaining creditability in the world and the reaction globally is likely to be one of repulsion.
The Queens passing just before his book launch will have thrown a grenade into their plans, and I guess it won’t be long before we see what he chooses.

As has already been said, he’s still in line but I think Meghan had had her eyes opened this past week as to what being a Royal really means. That the reality of it and all it entails is bigger than she is.
We saw a glimpse of the old Harry during his interaction with the crowds during their walkabout. He was relaxed, chatty, smiling, laughing, engaging with the people who had come to pay their respects to his grandmother.

@JustLyra @WimpoleHat I stand corrected! Thanks for putting the correct reasoning out there, every day’s a school day! (I should have known it wouldn’t be as simplistic as how I had it!)

I imagine Harry when he quit did not really envisage the extent of his difficulties still attending family occasions/state
occasions

It’s not about the quitting, I think. They could have done a (higher profile, admittedly) version of what the Duchess of Kent did; gave up Royal duties (with HMQ’s blessing) and went to become a piano teacher. Harry and Meghan could’ve moved abroad (they had plenty of money; millions but not mega millions) and, after a period of time, the press would have lost most of their interest. It’s the trying to cash in on their position by monetising their Royal status (always been a huge no-no for the Queen), telling lies (no kids’ titles because of race/the Archbishop of Canterbury performing an illegal private marriage to name but two) and totally trashing their family in public that’s caused him the problem coming back for family occasions.

They haven't lied - if Charles and William did anything wrong and have apologised or tried to make amends then it's up to them to maintain their relationship. I believe the ONLY thing Harry said was that they are trapped within the institution . . . there's a video of Charles doing an interview saying the same words. I don't recall anything negative mentioned about them otherwise.
There's nothing wrong with H+M expressing their experience of NOT being supported and protected by the RF. It seems as though Charles has made a u-turn there.