Why are H&M "less important" now?

[thefoggiest]

Let's not make this a bashing thread!
But in another thread yesterday it occured to me that the way I see it, I just get the sense that with the queens death they almost drop a rank. But that doesnt make sense? If anything shouldn't they now feel more important? Now that her majesty has gone it just feels like they become more distant somehow. Could it be to do with the passing of a generation, so they are no longer "the youth"?

By the way this isnt based on any facts or anything I've read, just a feeling on it. Can anyone explain? Am I right or wrong?

Reading this thread it’s interesting that the most childish, patronising, judgemental and rude comments are from MM supporters.

Make of that what you will.

I see there’s no ceasing from some of them either in the lazy arguments ‘you’re obsessed’ ‘you hate her’ ‘you’re racist’.

We need balanced adult discussion capable of seeing both sides to the story.

Tillsforthrills well said

You know that thing when a random shouty person gets in the carriage and everyone gradually gets up and moves away…?

signed, a lurker from days of yore.

Hear hear.

@tadara Brits are not being mocked for racism. As much as some would wish. Anyways you cannot make a career about a story about leaving the UK. Netflix is starting to realise that.

I totally agree.

Exactly. They are not working royals, and he is not committed to this country.

They are putting their media career ahead of anything else, so good luck to them and good riddance too. Glad they moved out, Hollywood and Netflix will have to deal with them, it will be interesting to watch.

As I said on another thread, there are some posters determined to believe that you must either love or hate Meghan.

It seems beyond their comprehension that it is possible to agree with some of her actions and disagree with other decisions she has made.

It is also beyond some people's understanding that disagreeing with some of the things Meghan does is not racist.

They have created this ridiculous polarised situation and attack anyone who doesn't unequivocally adore Meghan in ways that are often intimidating and hurtful. It is a form of censorship.

And I am not defending anyone who constantly and angrily criticises Meghan or her colour.

I am defending the posters who try to have a balanced discussion but get aggressively shouted at by the 'Meghan supporters'.

Yes, well said. It won’t stop the people constantly trying to derail though. Personally I find the derailers who see racism everywhere a lot more obsessed than the posters who are trying to have a genuine discussion.

Totally with you on this, it’s definitely a form of sly censorship.

That’s why MN allow the discussion and will censor any real racists/deranged MM haters on these threads.

out of interest who are these not pro posters who are having a balanced discussion?

Details seem to be leaking out that I assume are coming from the Sussex camp. Harry already seems to be ramping up the complaints and Poor Me narrative. It’s great advertising for his book. I really shudder to think what the chapter/s about the funeral will contain.

The funeral won't be in his book, surely? It was ready to go when the Queen died.

I see these palace sources are out in force lately, article after article of pure speculation based on palace sources what utter garbage, people even take it as fact. Funny isn't it. Except if it was w&k everyone wouldn't believe it and point out the aource of info is questionable.

Exactly my point. Some posters can't even see that some posters are neither bashing or unequivocally defending Meghan on everything.

Of course I'm not going to list posters. Don't be silly.

article after article of pure speculation based on palace sources what utter garbage

The author, Valentine Low, is a respected journalist who has worked at the Times for 14 years now. His book is based on interviews with employees who worked at Kensington Palace, reporting direct quotes of what they told him, and with many details that would easily be verifiable if challenged. The short form version of these details were provided to the Duchess of Sussex’s lawyers in advance of their publication last year, and were not challenged.

He is reporting the actual testimony of people telling what they experienced and witnessed. If you like, he is the Oprah to Meghan and Harry. If this is pure speculation, so is everything they told us.

(I’d also not rush to dismiss the work as a whole - it’s about Courtiers in general, not just Meghan and Harry. Once it’s published you may well find there are stories about others in the Royal Family that ref elect equally badly on them…none of us know what it contains, so it’s a little early to rush to judgment I would have thought!)

But to give an example which I've given before:

A couple if days ago I posted on a thread about Kate, objecting to some criticism I found unfair.
Another poster then immediately said something along the lines of : "Well you're just as bad posting hateful posts about Meghan"
I pointed out I had never posted anything hateful or nasty about her and asked the poster to show me any of these posts. Of course she couldn't.
But she just assumed that anyone making a supportive comment about Kate was obviously a Meghan hater, because you have to be either pro Kate or pro Meghan.

I have since seen her posting very aggressively in support of Meghan, and verbally attacking anyone who doesn't.

Agree.

Its a silencing tactic. And one of desperation of the losing side …..

They are becoming increasingly frustrated because more and more people, including people of colour and influence are speaking out on H&M unpalatable behaviour - many saying they were excited and supportive of their marriage and what they could uniquely bring to the roles - but who have been turned off over the past 4 years by the behaviour, words and attitudes they have witnessed directly from them both “unfiltered” through their own direct media appearances.

The fervent H&M supporters are increasingly on the wrong side of public opinion and evidence - and H&M are not coming up with any positive actions words behaviours to demonstrate otherwise.

I also think that when it gets to the narrow point that pro H&M supporters have to throw around personal insults or accuse of racism or resort to whataboutery or twist themselves into knots to invent increasingly fantastical explanations for H&M words and actions that they are massively losing credibility and inadvertently damaging the H&M brand that they are so desperate to defend.

There would be less noise and more respect if posters could just bring themselves to balance and say - yes that wasn’t a great thing to say or do - rather than defending the indefensible which just looks desperate especially when it is accompanied by personal attacks and blunt close down tactics.

This is an example of lazy personal slating because @tadara has run out of road for her ability to engage intelligently.

It’s very immature and transparent.

You just said a whole bunch of nothing

could you out that into English, please?

it’s hilarious the way you keep skirting the question.

i was talking about this thread.
i have seen a lot of PA's on here and a lot have been deleted. the poster will then insist its only pro posters who are doing it.
all this pr/anti reminds me of being young(shows age) and you could only be a donny fan or a David fan, you couldn't like both.

Samcro

reminds me of being young(shows age) and you could only be a donny fan or a David fan, you couldn't like both.

That really takes me back.
It was much cooler (at my school, anyway) to like David. Being, as ever, totally un-cool, I liked Donny (fave colour: purple; fave food: icecream).

over 70 posts on your very first day on MN must be quite trying.

It also shows lack of intelligence, emotional and otherwise - not to be able to engage in nuanced and layered debate - but only have the ability to operate in binary, black and white thinking. They don’t have the intellectual capacity or the emotional regulation to operate and debate in a mature and rational space.

The H&M situation is fascinating from a cultural, constitutional, political, personal, gender, race, class, money, image, family, institutional perspective and dynamic and it would be satisfying to discuss and debate in a mature and respectful way.