Prince Archie & Princess Lilibet?

[susan12345678]

Surely not?

I look forward to Harry's announcement explaining that they will decline prince and princess titles for their DC, in keeping with their decision to stand down as senior royals and live private lives in the US.

Anything less under the circumstances would be rank hypocrisy

It's sort-of surprising that Margarethe has seemingly made the change without any discussion with Joachim.

It does rather enhance the rumours of a fall out between Frederick and Joachim somewhat.

I guess in part it's about putting things in place for the next generation of grandchildren - with Fred & Mary having four there could be a fair number of grandkids. They've already made clear that only Christian will be a full time working royal being paid by the state, so perhaps this is setting things up to have only his children as titled royals.

They already have slightly different statuses in Norway - Ingrid Alexandra is HRH whereas her younger brother is HH. He's a member of the royal family, but not the royal house - which is just the King & Queen, the Crown Prince and Princess and Ingrid Alexandra as the next one down.

@JustLyra yes, it’s quite an abrupt way of going about it, not what I would have expected at all.

As i said, it’s a very sensible decision. It’s just the manner and timing that has surprised me a bit.

Yes exactly - there are 8 grandchildren of the Queen. That’s a lot of potential offspring in the next 20-odd years. And as you’ve said, it’s already been put in place that Christian will be the only one to receive a stipend as a working royal.

The statement from Queen Margrethe said that this is a natural extension of previous developments.

In reality I don't think any sane person cares if they are HRH Prince / Princess - they have no impact on our lives - the Royals that is. Why would anyone care.

Of course people don’t care. The individuals themselves might care a great deal though.

lol “sane” is a strong word. I reckon many royalists would tell you that both care about titles and are sane. Titles are basically the whole point of the shebang.

(I am not a royalist btw)

It's sort-of surprising that Margarethe has seemingly made the change without any discussion with Joachim

Apparently Joachim has been aware of the plans since May and was on board with the idea?

Reading between the lines, I wonder whether the older princes' celebrity lifestyles and modeling may have been a factor.

Either way, the timing is certainly interesting, as is the reference to the fact that other European royal families are doing the same thing. This really plays into the British RF's hands - I would be increasingly surprised if the Sussex children are to be known as prince and princess.

Princess Madeline and Prince Carl is part of the Swedish Royal family not Danish

The Swedish Royals changed their titles back in 2019 and her statement was made back them.

www.dr.dk/nyheder/seneste/prins-joachim-om-fratagelse-af-titler-jeg-fik-fem-dages-varsel

This Danish report is interesting. Prince Joachim is saying that he was advised in May that the children's titles would change when they turned 25. His daughter is only 11.

Then 5 days ago he was told the plans had been accelerated. Interesting that this seems to have happened just after his mother met with King Charles at HMQ's funeral.

If the plan is to only give prince/princess titles to immediate heirs and their children, seems best not to avoid formalising titles for more distant family members in the first place (as with Harry's children), rather than to grant them and then take them away again later, as is happening in Denmark.

should be 'to avoid' not 'not to avoid'

One day I'll learn to proofread

@NimrodNimroy thank you
So the Swedish have also slim lined recently by the looks of things

Yes they did so a while back. However there was clearly a very different period of consultation and both couples were in agreement (at least in public) with the move. It makes a lot of sense and Madeleine, especially, whose children are growing up abroad, likely understood/understands very well that it likely ensures a more positive outcome for her children as adults. As I stated earlier, though, the children are much younger. And they have retained their born titles of Prince/ss.

It is certainly an interesting development in the Danish Royal household. However although one could read into it a range of things, I’m going to refrain as I’m not inclined toward too much drama.

It’s interesting that the plans accelerated when Margarethe was ill. She had covid when she returned from the Queen’s funeral.

@JustLyra yes that was my immediate thought too. There’s certainly a sense of tying up loose ends as a matter of urgency.

I think in Sweden it made sense. They gave some of the grandchildren titles when they didn’t have to - Madeleine’s children - and the titles come with Duchies as well - and it seems that both Madeleine and Carl Philip are planning to have large families as neither has confirmed they plan to have no more.

I don’t think Charles’ slimming plans need the statement that removing titles from Harry’s children would make. Archie will still be able to pass on thr Sussex title if he has a son, not his Princely title, and Lilibet won’t pass on anything.

When it comes time for the Cambridge children to marry Charlotte won’t pass on titles so the only question is Louis children, and there is plenty of time for that to be set up.

The slimming has already naturally happened with Charles only having two children to his mothers four and none of his sibling’s children being working royals.

Which, considering how old she looks recently, has got to be a worry.

It definitely has an air of making sure those changes don’t look like Fred taking titles from the children of the brother he’s reportedly not getting on well with.

It will go down in the UK, if Charlotte and Louis are included in the stripping.

Leaving only George and his first bond, and their first born (heirs) only addressed as HRH Prince/Princess.

Not sure it's even costing us anything, really.

My thoughts too.

It will go down in the UK, if Charlotte and Louis are included in the stripping.

I had assumed this was Charles’ plan, from what Meghan said about him wanting to change the existing Letters Patent. So, in future, the only Princess/Princesses will be the children of the Sovereign/the direct heir/their direct heir.

So, applying that to the generations of the current family, that would leave:

• Elizabeth and Margaret
• Charles, Anne, Andrew and Edward
• William and Harry
• George, Charlotte, Louis
• George’s children

As the only people in their generation who are “HRH Prince/ss”, and only the oldest (underlined above) can then pass it on to their children.

Prince Joachim :

'We are all very sad. It's never fun to see your children being harmed. They are been put in a situation they do not understand,' he said in an interview with Danish news outlet Ekstra Bladet, translated to English.

I just don't see Charles ever having a plan that involved removing titles from Harry's children.

He's always known he'd be less popular than his mother so making big moves is risky.

Plus there was ample opportunity to sort all of this out, if he intended to, when the Queen issued the special LP's for the children of the Cambridge marriage.

However, they didn't even change things to make it the eldest child of the eldest child of the POW going forward. They simply made specific provision for the Cambridge children. It's still as it was in 1917.

There's a massive difference between slimming the family and making it so small it'll be invisible. I don't think for a second Charles was expecting anything less than both his sons and daughter in laws being full time royals, all of his grandchildren being titled, but on Harry's line that ending with his children whereas on William's it would continue on. Nothing he's said or done has suggested otherwise.

It's very bizarre how that one is all playing out.

The sudden urgency of it is very odd.

I sort of agree with you about Charlotte and Louis however I think there will be an expectation that they will be working Royals given the number of ageing Royals we have at present .

Charlotte and Louis will have to be working royals imo. George can't carry everything himself.

ATM we have Charles, Camilla, William, Kate, Anne, Edward, Sophie, Duke of Gloucester and then part timers in Duchess of Gloucester, Princess Alexandra and (officially) Duke of Kent.

In 20 years when George is 29 only William, Kate, Sophie and Edward will be under 90. Edward and Sophie will be a good bridge for William's time with them being so much younger than Charles, but there will be a point where they become the elderly part timers. William, Kate and George won't be able to carry it by themselves.