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susan12345678 · 04/09/2022 05:49

With another podcast set for release this week, The Sunday Times has a piece addressing Harry and Meghan's apparent strategy:

Courtiers are bemused by the Sussexes’ determination to rage against the past. As Davis observed of Meghan in her article: “She has taken a hardship and turned it into content.” A source who knows the Sussexes questions why Meghan “is constantly looking back at how awful it was to briefly be a royal. What does success look like, is it a number in the bank? Is it that they’ve killed off the monarchy?” Another Palace source says: “Ultimately they are bashing the institution that has put them in the position they’re in, the longevity of that strategy is not sustainable.”

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/harry-and-meghan-keep-bashing-the-monarchy-because-its-good-business-royals-believe-nq29p6g7z

I'm curious about their strategy, too. They seem to think that criticizing the royal makes them look better - it really doesn't. Instead, it just makes them look petty and increasingly irrelevant.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
11
Samcro · 04/09/2022 10:44

LivingOnAnIsland · 04/09/2022 10:03

Meghan is despised because of her behaviour. Anyone with an ounce of common sense can see right through her. She is a manipulative liar. Her colour has no relevance.

at last someone admits to being a hater. "despise"

I do wish also the OP would be honest, how can you discuss a podcast that has not happened.
be honest and call it a lets bash Meghan thread.

Farmageddon · 04/09/2022 10:44

skullbabe · 04/09/2022 10:34

I suppose her comment alludes to the fact that this is about the podcast - so far the conversation today is nothing about the conversation Meghan had with Mariah the word “diva”.

That was discussed many times in previous threads, or are we not allowed to talk about her generally, given that she is well versed in discussing herself at length.
She wants people to talk about her, but also wants to curate what they say and think about her and Harry, wants only positive, affirming responses. Everything else is bigoted apparently. They don't understand that when you are part of a public institution like the monarchy, or celebrity in general, you don't get to decide people's opinions of your behaviour.

Wheresthebeach · 04/09/2022 10:50

I think they are reaching the end of the road with the 'poor us, how horrible the RF is'. I suppose they could reignite interest with Harry's book, and MM publishing her diary, but at the end of the day they need to do what they said they wanted to do. Live their lives without the restrictions of the RF and work at something meaningful.

Their lack of any really successful output will be making the likes of Netflix very jumpy now... economics have changed for streaming services. The Mandela gaff will, I think, haunt MM. The tolerance for insanely rich people complaining about the institution that made them insanely rich isn't going to wash much longer.

MM handing out (or getting her security team) to hand out the odd bag to a homeless man is just tone deaf. She doesn't see it, she is utterly unaware of the optics.

American media is now turning on them as well...can you imagine what would have happened if the British Press had printed that depiction of MM as a toddler in a tiara? When the gloves come off in the States...they really come off.

When the Queen dies I think they will release all sorts of 'truth bombs', but I suspect it will backfire next time around.

Readinginthesun · 04/09/2022 10:54

skullbabe · 04/09/2022 10:43

And this is what we mean “scream racism” like “cry rape” is a problematic statement. These statements invalidate the lived experiences of many and promote a narrative - women cry about rape but we really know that’s not what really happened, black people are always harping on about racism but we all know that it doesn’t really happen - right?

Was your employee incorrect in her assessment that it was her behaviour as opposed to her race which led to her censure? Yes — and you could have said it like this.

But you used the phrase “scream racism”. Interesting.

I used it because she literally screamed ! She used to come right up to me and scream “ stop being racist “ in my face .
There is no hyperbole in what I am saying . I wasn’t the only person she screamed at .

Ohnonevermind · 04/09/2022 10:54

I see Obama has won an Emmy for his work on the Netflix series about American Parks. There is a way forward for them which excludes their RF trauma stories

skullbabe · 04/09/2022 10:55

Puzzledandpissedoff · 04/09/2022 09:55

She did give an interview talking about the racism she experienced after a black actor was cast as her father on "Suits"

I wasn't aware of that one, and thanks for including Meghan's actual words.
So what happened to the suggestion that she hadn't experienced racism before joining the RF ... another lie perhaps?

And why the wish to edit the media headlines backing the Oprah interview? If the coverage was that bad (as some undoubtably has been) surely there'd have been enough to choose from without the need to do that?

As DFOD correctly identified, it's noticeable that support even from the liberal media is fading - but then IMO it was only a matter of time, since to retain credibility there's only so much they can defend

Meghan lived her life as a biracial ambiguous woman and as such she has always had a very different experience to darker skinned women.

She did not say that she did not ever experience racism. She said that she understood some of what her darker skinned compatriots have dealt with when she met Harry because up until Harry her experience of blackness was very different. (This feeds into discussion of colourism in people of colour).

notanotheroneagain · 04/09/2022 10:55

Arnaquer · 04/09/2022 08:51

I like how they managed to slip into the country in a commercial flight ( admirable) then made sure we all knew about it via Hello magazine.
Do they want press intrusion or not?!

Maybe because the press has lied lot of times accusing H&M of using private jets when they did not?

Everyone had another fit about a supposed private jet to the UN - I remember among others that Christo person on a Jeremy Vine panel shouting about it. Except a passenger saw them and kept an eye.

Or the time people got upset about another private jet - well, except a passenger sneakily took a picture, in what looks like economy, of H (maybe with a bodyguard, can't remember) and posted it on SM.
Or the time the fail made a big deal about MM taking a private jet to see Serena. Left that story to fester and people's tempers to raise, only to come back a few weeks later and quietly put up a picture of MM taking commercial.

Or that they did not publicise the story about how H&M were the last people to board a flight and sat right at the back, wearing caps. But the staff and a few passengers did recognise them - they were in economy class.

Farmageddon · 04/09/2022 10:59

notanotheroneagain
There is a need to muzzle MM. Hence the liar label.

What else would you call someone who lies repeatedly though? She's not naive, she would have been media trained even before she met Harry. She should know well that if she makes a claim in an interview with Oprah, it's going to be looked into.
Just like Andrew with his ridiculous Pizza Hut claim. They can't think people are just going to accept everything at face value. How arrogant.

Harry would also know that claims he makes against his family cannot really be refuted, as the RF have to keep quiet. They aren't allowed to 'speak their truth'. He knows all this, and still chooses to throw mud, because he feels hard done by and is lashing out.

Farmageddon · 04/09/2022 11:00

Also, how exactly is she being muzzled, given that she has a podcast series to discuss herself at length? And interviews to magazines etc.

skullbabe · 04/09/2022 11:01

Readinginthesun · 04/09/2022 10:54

I used it because she literally screamed ! She used to come right up to me and scream “ stop being racist “ in my face .
There is no hyperbole in what I am saying . I wasn’t the only person she screamed at .

I suppose you could have said she screamed “”stop being racist” in my face when I was being anything but due to the very real issues with timekeeping”

“scream racism” like “cry rape” is very specific and you should avoid using these phrases.

DFOD · 04/09/2022 11:06

Wheresthebeach · 04/09/2022 10:50

I think they are reaching the end of the road with the 'poor us, how horrible the RF is'. I suppose they could reignite interest with Harry's book, and MM publishing her diary, but at the end of the day they need to do what they said they wanted to do. Live their lives without the restrictions of the RF and work at something meaningful.

Their lack of any really successful output will be making the likes of Netflix very jumpy now... economics have changed for streaming services. The Mandela gaff will, I think, haunt MM. The tolerance for insanely rich people complaining about the institution that made them insanely rich isn't going to wash much longer.

MM handing out (or getting her security team) to hand out the odd bag to a homeless man is just tone deaf. She doesn't see it, she is utterly unaware of the optics.

American media is now turning on them as well...can you imagine what would have happened if the British Press had printed that depiction of MM as a toddler in a tiara? When the gloves come off in the States...they really come off.

When the Queen dies I think they will release all sorts of 'truth bombs', but I suspect it will backfire next time around.

They would do well commercially to change tack and have the Disney Happy Ever After Ending.

They could present themselves as the compassionate, kind, forgiving family members - being the bigger people - reaching out - leading the healing - emotionally mature and dignified - a role model for peace and reconciliation….

I think that there is a potential market for this scenario - a thawing of tension and a rebuilding of bonds - I think the public would lap it up.

Imagine all the photo opps with all the cute cousins together - Harry and William reunited and healing - those optics would secure and turbo power their brand for decades!

SpinCityBlues · 04/09/2022 11:08

DFOD · 04/09/2022 08:49

amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/sep/03/meghan-harry-duke-duchess-sussex-media-blitz

High brow, left leaning / liberal anti racist US media (Washington Post, the New Yorker, CNN), African American commentary (as well as Nelson Madenlas family) is at best looking sceptical and fatigued and at worst critical of their behaviour and tone.

Seems that it is unraveling already with their intended base by their own direct actions and words.

This could have been an amazing opportunity inside or outside the RF to use a huge platform of influence to positively impact vulnerable people and important causes globally even if the money and power motivations were there - but the grandiosity, delusional, vengeful, fixated and brittle emotional under current is transparent and likely undone their best efforts.

Very interesting article, thank you.

skullbabe · 04/09/2022 11:09

Readinginthesun · 04/09/2022 10:13

I have been flicking through today’s newspaper headlines and cannot see anything positive about H and M other than Hello’s claims they have arrived via a commercial flight ( first class I assume- if true)

Sorry to use your comment but I would like to understand what the problem is with

  • Hello! Magazine have broken the story ( I read the paragraph about them which says - and I’m paraphrasing - Hello understand that H&M have arrived in the UK this morning.
  • H&M flying commercial
  • H&M flying 1st Class (if they did)
I’ve noticed a few comments about this and am just wondering.
maranella · 04/09/2022 11:10

VladmirsPoutine · 04/09/2022 08:35

I don't think I'll ever get my head around how Meghan gets more shit than a certified nonce.

Except he's not a certified nonce, is he? He had sex with a 17-year-old, which is legal in this country. It may well be distasteful, but the age of consent in the UK is 16. She also had sex with him willingly, on more than one occasion. He's a thick, entitled boor, but he's not a paedophile.

As for your repeated wittering on about racism, people's dislike of Meghan has nothing to do with race. She was universally well-liked when she and Harry got together. The entire country was delighted for him that he'd found a lovely, confident, accomplished woman who seemed to adore him. Their wedding was celebrated up and down the country and everyone thought that Meghan would be a huge asset to the RF, making them more relevant to modern Britain, in all its diversity.

What soured the public mood was the way both Meghan and Harry have behaved since then, their petulant whining, the lies they've told, the way they've treated Harry's family, the unsubstantiated claims and hints dropped into every interview, the blatant money-making and self-promotion, the endless painting of themselves, a pair of multi-millionaires living in luxury, as victims worthy of our pity. He's thick and naive and she's a world-class manipulator and narcissist and the fact that one of her ancestors happened to be black has fuck all to do with it.

Readinginthesun · 04/09/2022 11:12

skullbabe · 04/09/2022 11:01

I suppose you could have said she screamed “”stop being racist” in my face when I was being anything but due to the very real issues with timekeeping”

“scream racism” like “cry rape” is very specific and you should avoid using these phrases.

Don’t tell me what to say . You weren’t there . You didn’t hear her tirades .

Novella4 · 04/09/2022 11:13

@maranella

I do remember they were FAR more popular than William and Kate .
I bet that caused a stir behind the palace gates .

Readinginthesun · 04/09/2022 11:14

skullbabe · 04/09/2022 11:09

Sorry to use your comment but I would like to understand what the problem is with

  • Hello! Magazine have broken the story ( I read the paragraph about them which says - and I’m paraphrasing - Hello understand that H&M have arrived in the UK this morning.
  • H&M flying commercial
  • H&M flying 1st Class (if they did)
I’ve noticed a few comments about this and am just wondering.

You are not sorry , clearly you have decided to pick apart my posts today .

susan12345678 · 04/09/2022 11:14

Imagine all the photo opps with all the cute cousins together - Harry and William reunited and healing - those optics would secure and turbo power their brand for decades!

That presupposes that William would be interested in a reconciliation. I suspect that particular ship has well & truly sailed.

Regarding reports of their commercial flights, I also noticed a report pointing out a decline in Invictus’ income over the past year. It would be interested to see how much H& M’s appearances cost the foundation.

OP posts:
FoggyCrumpet · 04/09/2022 11:15

Imagine all the photo opps with all the cute cousins together - Harry and William reunited and healing - those optics would secure and turbo power their brand for decades!

I have no doubt William and Catherine can imagine those photo opps too. Which is why they will never happen.

FoggyCrumpet · 04/09/2022 11:16

LOL. Cross post OP Grin

LondonWolf · 04/09/2022 11:18

So - please don’t dismiss the very valid feeling from people of colour. You can criticise Meghan but perhaps when someone brings up something about race you may not understand it’s best to stop, ask and listen.

And be told to educate myself and that it's not POC's job to expend emotional labour on educating me?

Despite that I always have done tbh hence my no nonsense stance against lazy, unfounded accusations on this site when discussing M.

I'll say no more. These discussions never do go well for those who don't toe the party line.

skullbabe · 04/09/2022 11:18

“It all sounds lovely and luxurious, but it's built on the backs of others. The whole RF is an elitist institution rife with privilege unearned. Harry was born into it, Meghan married into it - neither earned it. That's one of the reason's their new branding of liberal, egalitarian, philanthropist, celebrity do-gooder rubs people the wrong way.”

I see this as very much on brand with Team Royal - they all espouse do-gooder ideals and have branded themselves as forward thinking. I suppose this is why some people defend Meghan - like myself - even though I really could do with getting rid of the lot of them - is the hypocrisy of people castigating these two for exactly the same thing the rest of them do. It’s really odd and strange to watch.

StickywithSuncream · 04/09/2022 11:20

maranella · 04/09/2022 11:10

Except he's not a certified nonce, is he? He had sex with a 17-year-old, which is legal in this country. It may well be distasteful, but the age of consent in the UK is 16. She also had sex with him willingly, on more than one occasion. He's a thick, entitled boor, but he's not a paedophile.

As for your repeated wittering on about racism, people's dislike of Meghan has nothing to do with race. She was universally well-liked when she and Harry got together. The entire country was delighted for him that he'd found a lovely, confident, accomplished woman who seemed to adore him. Their wedding was celebrated up and down the country and everyone thought that Meghan would be a huge asset to the RF, making them more relevant to modern Britain, in all its diversity.

What soured the public mood was the way both Meghan and Harry have behaved since then, their petulant whining, the lies they've told, the way they've treated Harry's family, the unsubstantiated claims and hints dropped into every interview, the blatant money-making and self-promotion, the endless painting of themselves, a pair of multi-millionaires living in luxury, as victims worthy of our pity. He's thick and naive and she's a world-class manipulator and narcissist and the fact that one of her ancestors happened to be black has fuck all to do with it.

This.

Serenster · 04/09/2022 11:20

It is the same with racism. Many black people read the same papers you do, consume the same media you do, have the the same politicians you do and we see, hear and read the discriminatory language. We hear how people talk about certain people in the public eye and even though they don’t call them anything inflammatory we know why. Just like you know why something is happening because you’re a woman - sometimes we know that things are happening because of race. It’s a really fun head scratcher as a black woman trying to figure out sometimes if something is happening because I’m a woman or if it’s happening because I’m black 🤣.

People of colour are and can be critical of Meghan - but there’s a tone that is sometimes difficult to escape from certain people. You must admit that some of the language to discuss Meghan is very gendered - believe us when we say that some of the language also prejudiced.

I thought this was a very thoughtful and interesting post skullbabe, as your posts generally are (even if I don’t agree with them!) and I absolutely don’t want to to dismiss your views, I just wanted to add some of my perspectives onto them. I am of white heritage, but I am a woman, an immigrant to the UK and not the same class of the royals (I’m not alone there, I imagine! 😀).

I completely accept that some of the treatment Meghan received was because she is mixed race - the Straight Outta Compton headlines, Danny Baker’s offensive tweet, the fact that the Mail even had a story of BNP people being vile about her to run.

But for those of us who have watched UK royal coverage for more than the last few years, it becomes well nigh impossible to draw any lines after that. The coverage is sexist and misogynist - all women who have married into the royal family (all the royal women, in fact) have received that. As the press cycles turn they have all been too staid, too unattractive too fat, too thin, too sexy, too frumpy, too fashion-driven, they have spent too much, they have had too many holidays, they have been too frivolous, too dour, too quiet, too ebullient - you name it.

The married-ins have also received classist abuse - they are too common, their families are too common, they have embarrassing relations, they have dreadful middle-class habits, they make protocol errors all the time, they don’t like country pursuits…

Those who have left the Royal family have been pilloried for trading on their titles, doing tacky ventures like flogging products, commercial endorsements or writing risible books to earn money.

There have only been a few foreign additions, and they too have been too foreign, too stuck-up, thought they were better than the actual family etc (I’m thinking of Marie-Christine and Princess Marina here - Brigitte Gloucester seems to me to be the exception, though I may well be proved wrong). Wallis Simpson definitely got the anti- American, anti-divorcee snobbishness in absolute droves.

Those who have done tell-alls to the Press have been pilloried (Charles, Diana and Sarah Ferguson before now). They have had their privacy invaded to a truly horrific extent (Charles, Camilla, Diana, William Kate & Harry). They have been absolutely harassed by paparazzi, been the victims of outright scams - and all of this is just me doing a mind dump, no actual research.

Against that background, it is very hard for long-term royal watchers to look at this and think the only factor at play in Meghan’s experience is racism. That demonstrably wasn’t a factor for any of the above experiences.

(And before everyone says: but the avocados! I have several times expressed my view that the fact that the media has now moved onto a clickbait model rather than a physical harassment model meant Meghan’s name was added into as many articles as possible in order to get as many readers as possible to click on them. The excessive headline coverage is not remotely followed by excessive content - critical or otherwise - about her in the actual stories, and was a function of her high profile and the numbers of clicks mention of her drove. Obviously, we can’t compare what kind of clickbait coverage Diana would have garnered in her prime, since she was dead long before the online age. But given how no other royal has ever sold copy like Diana did, I can well imagine she would have had exactly the same experience).

skullbabe · 04/09/2022 11:21

You are not sorry , clearly you have decided to pick apart my posts today .

I am sorry as I didn’t realise you were the same poster who I was discussing the phrase with. I genuinely did not mean to seem as if I was picking apart your posts.

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