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With another podcast set for release this week, The Sunday Times has a piece addressing Harry and Meghan's apparent strategy:

Courtiers are bemused by the Sussexes’ determination to rage against the past. As Davis observed of Meghan in her article: “She has taken a hardship and turned it into content.” A source who knows the Sussexes questions why Meghan “is constantly looking back at how awful it was to briefly be a royal. What does success look like, is it a number in the bank? Is it that they’ve killed off the monarchy?” Another Palace source says: “Ultimately they are bashing the institution that has put them in the position they’re in, the longevity of that strategy is not sustainable.”

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/harry-and-meghan-keep-bashing-the-monarchy-because-its-good-business-royals-believe-nq29p6g7z

I'm curious about their strategy, too. They seem to think that criticizing the royal makes them look better - it really doesn't. Instead, it just makes them look petty and increasingly irrelevant.

I agree.

Reconciliation is a process.
Step by step. Baby steps.
Lots of time between.
And options to back out again.

It all starts with intent.

Is the intention to build a bridge and eventually get over it? Or not?

What would Michele O - advise I wonder

I suspect she'd advise them both to stop slagging off the RF, stop talking about themselves, move on and find some meaningful work to do that focuses on those less fortunate than themselves.

I don't believe William and Harry are interested in building bridges yet. William is a sitting target for their barbs and has taken accusations of being the person who made the racist comments. As long as they are threatening to reveal more allegations, he's not going to want to be friends.

Harry is not in a position to guarantee he'll never talk about them. He's got a Netflix documentary and a book coming out. And if he needs money in future, gossip is what he'll need to sell.
He is also loyal to his wife. As long as he feels that she is being excluded or blamed unfairly, he's not going to want to make up.

Only time and distance will sort it so that the fresh bitterness has time to fade away.

I think that's good advice @maranella.

@MarshaMelrose I heard that the main reason they weren't invited to Barack's 60th birthday party (which they were DYING to get an invite to), was because of the Oprah interview. The Obamas are big fans of the Queen and didn't want to show they approved of what H&M did. Remember 'when they go low, we go high'? I think they live that.

Who did you hear this from?

I should also think, @maranella, that having been head of state, they value loyalty and people who don't leak conversations. I'm sure they wouldn't want their children talking about their marriage, fights and differing opinions so maybe the see it from the queen's side?

The Obamas are politicians, though, so I always think the actual slogan is, "when they go low, we go high (unless it's politically expedient not to)". 😉 😂

Does forgiveness mean that you should let people who have wronged you back into your life regardless of their willingness to change? Meghan’s father has behaved terribly towards her - she can choose to let go of her anger but she doesn’t need to reconcile with him.

Similar with Harry - he feels his family has behaved appallingly. He’s still obviously bitter however once he’s let go of that hurt he does not need to reconcile with them. That’s not what forgiveness is.

You do not know whether Harry visited his grandfather before his death. You will not know unless they choose to share it if he visits his grandmother.

skullbabe · Today 15:35
You do not know whether Harry visited his grandfather before his death. You will not know unless they choose to share it if he visits his grandmother.

Surely we would have known? There was constant reporting on the D of E's condition and his few visitors. Could Harry quietly slipped in without any of the Press knowing. And, of course he had to be back for Oprah. (Unless that's why he came in late...!)

My confusion is with H and M's original "collaboration" plans. It's almost as if because the Queen put the kibosh on what their plans for her and them were, they spat the dummy. Surely by suggesting they have their cake and eat it, they would have been validating the monarchy and all it stands for.

skullbabe · Today 15:35
Meghan’s father has behaved terribly towards her - she can choose to let go of her anger but she doesn’t need to reconcile with him.* *Meghan’s father has behaved terribly towards her - she can choose to let go of her anger but she doesn’t need to reconcile with him.

But that's exactly what forgiveness is! She does not need to let him closely into her life. She does need to remember that he brought her up, looked after her as a child, paid for her schooling and university. The very least she could do is phone him., wish him well.
What's the point of being forgiven if you never know it?

Who did you hear this from?

I don't remember - but I thought it sounded believable.

@MarshaMelrose the Obamas are indeed politicians and connections in high places are important - the RF being much more influential and important connections than H&M - but I also get the feeling that they are big on family loyalty.

The way that Harry, in particular, has thrown his family under the bus has not gone down well with many of the people I speak to regularly in the US. A lot of Americans are small 'c' conservatives and they don't approve of the way Harry has treated his family, in particularly the Queen at a time of great sadness for her.

Remember that the Oprah interview came out on March 7 and Prince Philip died on April 9, just a month later. PP was already very ill at that point and for him to allow the airing of that interview at such a time was really heartless. If Harry actually cared about the Queen, as he frequently claims to do in interviews, he'd have visited and he'd have pulled the plug on that interview or least ensured it was aired at another time.

I imagine Meghan wouldn’t countenance that happening for one minute. She doesn’t want Harry back in the fold. She doesn’t want to meet William either. She has a chip on her shoulder as big as a canyon.

My confusion is with H and M's original "collaboration" plans. It's almost as if because the Queen put the kibosh on what their plans for her and them were, they spat the dummy

There's no "almost" about it, since even their more fervid admirers can't have failed to notice that the attacks only started to appear after they'd failed to get what they wanted

Admittedly their claims were backdated to suggest they'd always been unhappy, but it's certainly not how they presented things at the time

@maranella The Obamas are indeed politicians and connections in high places are important - the RF being much more influential and important connections than H&M - but I also get the feeling that they are big on family loyalty.

I think that any family that is so in the public spotlight and knows that anything they say informally will make the headlines, is very cautious. And Harry must know what its like to be betrayed to the press and how people distressed his mother by leaking private conversations. But I don't see either of them regretting what they've done and indeed Meghans comment that she can say anything, seem designed to keep it going. I just can't figure out if it's to keep relevant or to get revenge.

Forgiveness is about the person who was wronged not the person who wronged them. Many parents support their children - it doesn’t give them carte blanche to treat their children badly. Her father behaved badly - only she knows the level of harm to herself and if she chooses to forgive him for herself that’s fine but she does not owe him a relationship if she feels she has been harmed significantly. And that’s it - you just don’t know.

Just a side note - no child asks to be born. It is the responsible thing to do as a parent to provide shelter, feed them and to educate them to the best of their capability amongst the other essential needs . You cannot criticise Meghan for her feelings because her father did not neglect her - he did what any parent should do. If I did what he did to my children - I would understand their hurt and would hope that one day they would come round but wouldn’t force it.

I just can't figure out if it's to keep relevant or to get revenge.

See the title of Tom Bower's book

I just can't figure out if it's to keep relevant or to get revenge.

Both?

And the former increases their media net worth as the continual tension and ongoing speculation/ expectation of salacious comments keeps everyone on the hook hanging on their every word and manoeuvre and therefore engaged for longer.

If H&M had taken Michelle Obama’s very specific and wise advice after the OW interview … there would be nothing to dangle, no tease etc and momentum or build up.

The Random House book, Spotify and Netflix deals ($130 million?) would not have transpired.

Their value is in dishing the dirt and each of these deals will likely have specific content clauses.

They have made themselves incredibly wealthy this way - but the also have to deliver.

I wonder if H is having second thoughts and that’s why the book is delayed…..? Is he really hanging back to launch and cash in when HMQ dies?

Unpalatable either way. He must know this?

I think the book won’t happen.

They thought they were so important that the rules would be changed for them, hence announcing things without discussing with the Queen. It's breathtakingly arrogant.

And now they play the victim. It's a massive waste, they have every opportunity in the world, wealth, connections, publicity and they can't bring themselves to do anything but complain about the RF and how unfair it all is. That's why they wind people up. If they'd done what they said they wanted to do, most of us would be perfectly happy to ignore them, just like we do the rest of the RF...

W&K can't talk to them, whatever they say will be leaked to the media/Netflix etc. It's awful but true. I don't see a reconciliation anytime soon. I think once the Queen dies, H&M will feel no restrictions on releasing more 'truth bombs'.

I speak to different people from the states who feel differently.

I’m very aware of the deep reverence that seems to appear whenever it comes to talking about the royal family but sickness, frailty and death should never prevent people from talking about bad things. Philip was still driving 2 years (stubbornly) before his death and cause an accident and sent a very formal message to the woman and her baby which she didn’t interpret as an apology.

Philip had been sick more and more over his last year and in his final six months he looked ghastly - the clock was ticking for him regardless of whether or not his grandson gave that interview.

There was never going to be a good time for this interview. If they’d waited after his death it would have been too soon (no matter how long after).

I think once the Queen dies, H&M will feel no restrictions on releasing more 'truth bombs

I for one am really looking forward to what they might say once Elizabeth dies (what a sad day that will be - regardless of what I think of the monarchy she’s been a constant in all of our lives and she have given her life to service).

It is really important for us to see behind the curtain of the opaqueness of the Head of State and their dealings and in no other modern democracy do we have to deal with not knowing. So - whatever H&M say I say bring it on. I welcome the scrutiny of the whole lot of them.

But its not scrutiny - the other side can't answer. Its personal attacks that have to be born by the RF quietly.

Now...if you were talking about an independent investigation around money...that would be scrutiny.

skullbabe · Today 16:59
Her father behaved badly - only she knows the level of harm to herself

But did he really? He was photographed being measured for a suit and looking at a book about England.
Tom Bower says he was old, fat, shabby, and would spoil the look of the wedding - this was M's real objection
And then he published a "sad" letter she sent him - and which she intended him to leak.
Is this so bad that a woman who claims to be compassionate couldn't at least pick up the phone, or send a message when he was so ill.

It is really important for us to see behind the curtain of the opaqueness of the Head of State and their dealings and in no other modern democracy do we have to deal with not knowing. So - whatever H&M say I say bring it on. I welcome the scrutiny of the whole lot of them

@skullbabe

I take it you feel the same way about the findings of the bullying investigation into MM then?