Prince Andrew Thread 4

[Roussette]

I'm starting a new one as events seem to be moving again. Sorry I can't do a link to no. 3

@notanotheroneagain

We get that Andrew had to be at the memorial today, but did he have to be front and centre by riding with the Queen.

They said he would keep a low profile.

I have lost what little respect I had for the queen due to her repeated indications of support for this cunt

Typos. “Physically hard to support someone”

For the Queen to arrive at Westminster Abbey on the arm of Prince Andrew this morning is quite scandalous imho

I agree. It should be her eldest son and obviously people are going to pick up on this like when she rode with him and took him to church after the maitlis disaster.

WinnieTheW0rm
“But yes she chose him tomwalk with her and we don't know why. One strand will be that he remains a much loved member of the family (to nick a phrase from another context)”

Was it not because her other children had spouses to arrive with ? I think he is a disgrace however he is still her son.

I think it's a misstep by the queen. She only seems to make them these days around Andrew.

I can't work out whether it's poor advice from courtiers; she doesn't care about what he's done; she actually thinks he's 'innocent' and believes his denials.

I actually think that was the lowest key way he could have arrived.
The BBC obviously agreed they'd keep coverage of the Queen walking to an absolute minimum so him with her kept him off screen too. Their arrival wasn't covered, her short procession was barely shown and they sat the Queen's children in age order, rather than line of succession order so he wasn't in that row with HMQ, Charles and Anne.

I think it would have been better if he'd had a convenient case of Covid, but in terms of keeping him out of the limelight then, on this occasion, having him with HMQ was actually the way to do it.

When you're a widow of 95 years old attending the memorial service of your husband of over 70 years then you can dictate what the Queen did today. This will be Andrew's last high profile public event except for his mother's funeral.

I certainly hope it will be his last high profile public appearance although I don't see that written in stone anywhere. Where has that statement come from?

And yes, of course one should be sensitive to the wishes of a 95 year old widow but the Queen more than anyone must be aware that the private life of the RF is public by definition. It may be hard on these occasions but that's how the monarchy works surely?
They could all sit in their various palaces and attend family events in total privacy but a monarchy needs subjects! That's the Faustian pact! Therefore public and private in this context are indistinguishable. And therefore what happens at a private memorial service (broadcast nationally and internationally) has significance.

I have lost what little respect I had for the queen due to her repeated indications of support for this cunt

I suspect this will be the sentiment of many.

Was it not because her other children had spouses to arrive with ? I think he is a disgrace however he is still her son

Were Sarah, Beatrice and Eugenie not there for Andrew to arrive with? They think he's fucking amazing.

At first I was flabbergasted by it but actually I think it was the smartest move possible. Regardless of what he’s done he’s entitled to attend his father’s thanksgiving so he couldn’t just be kept away and the way he arrived gave him the lowest possible profile. Yes he escorted the Queen but her arrival was private (few papshots in car but actual arrival in and out car etc private), there was limited footage of them walking in and no greeting the religious people or walking down the aisle (sorry don’t know correct terminology). PA took his data with very little coverage of him and being on right grouping rather than left group of family seats didn’t seem to feature in much of the video of the service. Contrast this to how much footage is available of all the other family arriving in cars, greeting, walking to seats, in seats, following everyone out in a big family group. He was excluded from all of that. Yes he walked the Queen in and out but he is her son whether we like him or not and he was kept as low profile as possible I think given the very public nature of the service. Just look at the DM pictures for an example…the usual excessive levels of all the family arriving leaving etc but I’ve only spotted the pap shot in car and some blurry stills form the broadcast of PA. If he arrived solo or with his girls there would be hundreds of pictures of him. It was as low profile as they could make it. Plus… no one is going to boo him if he’s with the Queen right

He's her son and she loves him. She also believes him.

It was his father's memorial and she wanted him there. The rest of us should keep our noses out.

I'm so sick of the continued banging on about it. He's humiliated, guilty or not. He's lost almost everything. Just let it go.

Some here seem to take delight in wallowing in this case. That's weird.

"He's humiliated, guilty or not. He's lost almost everything. Just let it go."

He doesn't actually seem to have lost much, including being his mothers favourite child.

Plus… no one is going to boo him if he’s with the Queen right

Which again can be interpreted as the queen casting a veil of protection over him, however clever the arrangements might be seen by others

I initially thought it was a mistake but on reflection I think it meant that he could attend his father’s service in a low case a way as possible. He didn’t get to mix with everyone else as they were arriving or leaving.

I’ll probably flip flop my view but in hindsight I think a better way for him to arrive than I thought at first.

@spacehardware

"He's humiliated, guilty or not. He's lost almost everything. Just let it go."

He doesn't actually seem to have lost much, including being his mothers favourite child.

He's lost his status and position in the armed forces. That will have hurt him and his ego.

What else do people want? Sackcloth and ashes?

Just leave him to his humiliation and let his mother spend what time she has left with the family members she chooses to be with.

She doesn't think he's guilty of what he was accused of. A lot of people think the same way. Time to move on.

The BBC obviously had an agreement not to show much of the Queen when she was arriving and leaving. Which is perfectly acceptable given her age and condition. She wants the service to be about her late husband, not about her (as so much of the 'Queen sits alone' coverage dominated the funeral).

To not have him there would have seen him talked about a lot.
To have him arrive alone, or with his daughters, would have seen him shown on tv and talked about a lot.
To ask the BBC specifically not to show him would have leaked and been talked about a lot.

This way he was low key. He wasn't specifically greeted by anyone, like the rest of them were, he wasn't specifically avoided either. He was just the relative walking with the Queen in case she needed an arm rather than Prince Andrew.

Were Sarah, Beatrice and Eugenie not there for Andrew to arrive with? They think he's fucking amazing

Don't think Sarah was there - certainly not up with the family, anyhow and possibly not at all. B and E were both with husbands, and came in through the front route with all the other 'senior' family.

I think it was entirely correct that DofY came in through the side entrance.

And pp is right that that only a few paces were broadcast.

We don't ever want to see Andrew's crusty face ever, most especially in a prominent role of walking HMQ down the row (don't want to say isle, obviously).

If you are worried about those with spouses, get her oldest grandson, Peter to accompany her.

Andrew must just slinker in on the side with either the plebs or the rest of the extended family and sit somewhere in the middle, not at the front. The camera can pass him over once, to confirm he was there, so no speculation. But pretty much be treated with as much significance (or lack of) as the extended family.

As it is, he had the prominent role of riding in the car with her, walked her to her seat, and stand by as she made her goodbyes etc.

If you are worried about those with spouses, get her oldest grandson, Peter to accompany her.

He was with his children.

The only other relatives that seem to have arrived alone were the Duke of Kent - who is too frail himself to support the Queen - and Countess Mountbatten of Burma, which given all the rumours about her relationship with Prince Philip would have just caused a media field day had she been given such an unexpected role.

I actually think that was the lowest key way he could have arrived

I must respectfully disagree on that one JustLyra. If you have been chosen to accompany the monarch when you have been publically disgraced, that sends out a clear message; it's not low key at all! In fact her arrival, with PA, has featured on every news broadcast since the service this morning. The Palace must have been aware of the headlines that this decision would create.

I can't work out whether it's poor advice from courtiers; she doesn't care about what he's done; she actually thinks he's 'innocent' and believes his denials

I personally think it goes deeper than that. I think there is misogyny in-built within the institution of the monarchy which is deeply traditional and sexist. Yes, even when we have a Queen! I don't think young women are respected within the institution. They are seen as "collateral damage". Think about what happened to Diana. Snared as a teenager and basically used as a breeding machine and excluded when she spoke up. What happened to her was disgraceful. Not the adultery as much (which is to be expected in circles where people have excess time and money) but the propagation of the public lie, within which she and her DC were supposed to operate, and be silent and compliant.

So imho it's quite likely that Virginia Giuffre would have been dismissed within Palace walls as a "silly girl" who was making "a fuss about nothing". "Boys will be boys don't you know!"

He was with his children.

Their mother was not there?

Not that Charles could not have walked her down and sit between her and Camilla. It would not have looked strange for Sophie to walk in with the children, while Edward does that, then he moves to the sit with Sophie and DC. After all, even Andrew could not sit with her throughout.

I must respectfully disagree on that one JustLyra. If you have been chosen to accompany the monarch when you have been publically disgraced, that sends out a clear message; it's not low key at all! In fact her arrival, with PA, has featured on every news broadcast since the service this morning. The Palace must have been aware of the headlines that this decision would create.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

He was going to have attention. However, he's not the main event. He's been mentioned once or twice in coverage in passing as arriving with the Queen, but the focus has been on the Queen.

It's massively low key in terms of coverage imo. Compare it to the arrival of his daughters, or the Wessexes - cameras following them from their car into the Abbey, meeting the clergy, walking to their seats etc. He was a barely mentioned and barely seen arrival.

The fact that the coverage of the Queen was so minimised until she was in her seat meant that coverage of him was also minimised. It's unusual that being with the Monarch keeps you out of the media glare, but on this occasion it did.

Their mother was not there?

No, not sitting with the DC so probably not there at all

Mmm still not convinced JustLyra I'm afraid. That seems a bit of a strange justification to me. As pps have said, it wasn't necessary that PA accompanied the Queen. He could have sat at the back of the royal family having entered the Abbey earlier than the Queen by the same side entrance. It wasn't a question of "either" parade down the aisle "or" accompany the Queen. His presence could have been managed much more discreetly than it was.

@AndAsIfByMagic

He's her son and she loves him. She also believes him.

It was his father's memorial and she wanted him there. The rest of us should keep our noses out.

I'm so sick of the continued banging on about it. He's humiliated, guilty or not. He's lost almost everything. Just let it go.

Some here seem to take delight in wallowing in this case. That's weird.

Totally agree. Of course he would attend his father's memorial and if his mother, who is 95, wanted him to help her walk in then that's fine with me.

She is not likely to be around that much longer

@Frangiblepins88

Mmm still not convinced JustLyra I'm afraid. That seems a bit of a strange justification to me. As pps have said, it wasn't necessary that PA accompanied the Queen. He could have sat at the back of the royal family having entered the Abbey earlier than the Queen by the same side entrance. It wasn't a question of "either" parade down the aisle "or" accompany the Queen. His presence could have been managed much more discreetly than it was.

I'm not trying to convince you. You're as entitled to your opinion as I am mine.

Managing him discreetly would have been a headline in itself "Andrew smuggled into Abbey" or "Disgraced Duke banished from family arrivals".

There was going to be talk about him regardless of how (or even if) he arrived and where he sat. Minimising it, without the minimising causing more talk, was their aim and clearly people have different opinions on how well, or not, they succeeded.