Prince Andrew Thread 4

[Roussette]

I'm starting a new one as events seem to be moving again. Sorry I can't do a link to no. 3

[AnastasiaRomanov]

I don’t think he loved Diana but he tried his best to help her and the marriage. More than the Queen did I think. SF was just a total embarrassment from day one. The toe sucking thing was the end of the road.

[moomims]

@Ambition9to5

If i were beatrice that 'd temper my affection for him he was awful to SF.
He loved Diana. I dont think SF brought more shame on the RF!
AND OBVIOUSLY nobody brought nore shame on the rf than his own second son.

No he didn't love Diana, he was horrible to her and about her.

[Ambition9to5]

If i were beatrice that 'd temper my affection for him he was awful to SF.
He loved Diana. I dont think SF brought more shame on the RF!
AND OBVIOUSLY nobody brought nore shame on the rf than his own second son.

[EdithWeston]

@Eachdaygoesby

I think it's quite interesting that SF wasn't present

I don't think she was PP's favourite person was she?

It would appear that there's a bit of a double standard when it comes to adultery and the RF...it's only acceptable when carried out by males apparently...or perhaps it's ok when you are discreet about it and don't get caught out by the papers?

It's not so much the having if affairs, but the legalities of whether you're married or not.

Autumn Philips wasn't there either.

Fiancé/es get invited to some events (daytime, only one in recent times who has had an overnight invitation was MM) and any pre-engagement cohabitation is very discreet, and does not lead to invitations to events (eg the Wessexes)

[CathyorClaire]

I don't think she was PP's favourite person was she?

No, she wasn't but since he died she seems to have been a bit more welcome in the royal fold.

I just wondered if there could have been some sort of instruction from him forbidding her presence at his send-off.

[Eachdaygoesby]

I think it's quite interesting that SF wasn't present

I don't think she was PP's favourite person was she?

It would appear that there's a bit of a double standard when it comes to adultery and the RF...it's only acceptable when carried out by males apparently...or perhaps it's ok when you are discreet about it and don't get caught out by the papers?

[moomims]

@NativityDreaming

Really disgraceful decision, I have lost what little respect I had left for the monarchy.

Yes, me too, and don't get me started on K&W , I had permanent second hand embarrassment watching the Tour recently.

[CathyorClaire]

I think it's quite interesting that SF wasn't present.

Choice or diktat? Who knows.

As for Andrew I think at the very best it was ill-advised for him to have been seen doing anything other than scurrying in and out in a furtive fashion.

As it stands it's yet another two fingered salute to the plebs who fund the circus.

[NativityDreaming]

Really disgraceful decision, I have lost what little respect I had left for the monarchy.

[Puzzledandpissedoff]

Yes, it might well mean that to some, upinaballoon, and they could be right and myself mistaken

However it's not what it says to me, which is why I was clear that it's a personal view and that I'm not presuming to speak for others

[upinaballoon]

@Puzzledandpissedoff

If you have been chosen to accompany the monarch when you have been publically disgraced, that sends out a clear message

Precisely, and it's the same message as every other time she's backed him, failed to rein him in, ridden out with him for pap shots, and sprinkled him with yet more honours just when the news is worst

And to me it says "He's my son, so I'll do what I like and f*ck the rest of you", which if correct seems less than admirable

To some people it might mean, "He's my son, I have no illusions whatever about him and I have been furious with him. People who think I believe him to be a great innocent must need their heads looking at. However, he is his father's and my son so there is no reason to bar him from coming to the service. I need help walking and will go in quietly the short way, so if he helps me that will be a reasonably tactful way of getting him in while the rest of the family do the front door stuff and talk to the clergy etc. That's my best plan in the circumstances."

[Puzzledandpissedoff]

If you have been chosen to accompany the monarch when you have been publically disgraced, that sends out a clear message

Precisely, and it's the same message as every other time she's backed him, failed to rein him in, ridden out with him for pap shots, and sprinkled him with yet more honours just when the news is worst

And to me it says "He's my son, so I'll do what I like and f*ck the rest of you", which if correct seems less than admirable

[Frangiblepins88]

I'm not trying to convince you You're as entitled to your opinion as I am mine

Why, thank you! I didn't think you were and that does tend to be the way a discussion thread works!

I have tried to express my opinions politely throughout. I just happen disagree with what you are saying.

And yes, I agree that people will have different opinions on how well or not they succeeded. My view still stands that by accompanying the monarch, the head of the royal family, "the boss" with the top job, Prince Andrew's presence loomed much larger than was appropriate in the circumstances.

[notanotheroneagain]

Still the headline is worse now, 'Queen showing support for favourite child'. I say better than 'discreet Andrew' .

As I said, let Charles or Edward do the walking with HMQ.

[NewModelArmyMayhem18]

I believe the Duke of Kent was accompanied by his daughter-in-law (wife of the Earl of St Andrews)?

[JustLyra]

@Frangiblepins88

Mmm still not convinced JustLyra I'm afraid. That seems a bit of a strange justification to me. As pps have said, it wasn't necessary that PA accompanied the Queen. He could have sat at the back of the royal family having entered the Abbey earlier than the Queen by the same side entrance. It wasn't a question of "either" parade down the aisle "or" accompany the Queen. His presence could have been managed much more discreetly than it was.

I'm not trying to convince you. You're as entitled to your opinion as I am mine.

Managing him discreetly would have been a headline in itself "Andrew smuggled into Abbey" or "Disgraced Duke banished from family arrivals".

There was going to be talk about him regardless of how (or even if) he arrived and where he sat. Minimising it, without the minimising causing more talk, was their aim and clearly people have different opinions on how well, or not, they succeeded.

[mydogisthebest]

@AndAsIfByMagic

He's her son and she loves him. She also believes him.

It was his father's memorial and she wanted him there. The rest of us should keep our noses out.

I'm so sick of the continued banging on about it. He's humiliated, guilty or not. He's lost almost everything. Just let it go.

Some here seem to take delight in wallowing in this case. That's weird.

Totally agree. Of course he would attend his father's memorial and if his mother, who is 95, wanted him to help her walk in then that's fine with me.

She is not likely to be around that much longer

[Frangiblepins88]

Mmm still not convinced JustLyra I'm afraid. That seems a bit of a strange justification to me. As pps have said, it wasn't necessary that PA accompanied the Queen. He could have sat at the back of the royal family having entered the Abbey earlier than the Queen by the same side entrance. It wasn't a question of "either" parade down the aisle "or" accompany the Queen. His presence could have been managed much more discreetly than it was.

[WinnieTheW0rm]

Their mother was not there?

No, not sitting with the DC so probably not there at all

[JustLyra]

I must respectfully disagree on that one JustLyra. If you have been chosen to accompany the monarch when you have been publically disgraced, that sends out a clear message; it's not low key at all! In fact her arrival, with PA, has featured on every news broadcast since the service this morning. The Palace must have been aware of the headlines that this decision would create.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

He was going to have attention. However, he's not the main event. He's been mentioned once or twice in coverage in passing as arriving with the Queen, but the focus has been on the Queen.

It's massively low key in terms of coverage imo. Compare it to the arrival of his daughters, or the Wessexes - cameras following them from their car into the Abbey, meeting the clergy, walking to their seats etc. He was a barely mentioned and barely seen arrival.

The fact that the coverage of the Queen was so minimised until she was in her seat meant that coverage of him was also minimised. It's unusual that being with the Monarch keeps you out of the media glare, but on this occasion it did.

[notanotheroneagain]

He was with his children.

Their mother was not there?

Not that Charles could not have walked her down and sit between her and Camilla. It would not have looked strange for Sophie to walk in with the children, while Edward does that, then he moves to the sit with Sophie and DC. After all, even Andrew could not sit with her throughout.

[Frangiblepins88]

I actually think that was the lowest key way he could have arrived

I must respectfully disagree on that one JustLyra. If you have been chosen to accompany the monarch when you have been publically disgraced, that sends out a clear message; it's not low key at all! In fact her arrival, with PA, has featured on every news broadcast since the service this morning. The Palace must have been aware of the headlines that this decision would create.


I can't work out whether it's poor advice from courtiers; she doesn't care about what he's done; she actually thinks he's 'innocent' and believes his denials

I personally think it goes deeper than that. I think there is misogyny in-built within the institution of the monarchy which is deeply traditional and sexist. Yes, even when we have a Queen! I don't think young women are respected within the institution. They are seen as "collateral damage". Think about what happened to Diana. Snared as a teenager and basically used as a breeding machine and excluded when she spoke up. What happened to her was disgraceful. Not the adultery as much (which is to be expected in circles where people have excess time and money) but the propagation of the public lie, within which she and her DC were supposed to operate, and be silent and compliant.

So imho it's quite likely that Virginia Giuffre would have been dismissed within Palace walls as a "silly girl" who was making "a fuss about nothing". "Boys will be boys don't you know!"

[JustLyra]

If you are worried about those with spouses, get her oldest grandson, Peter to accompany her.

He was with his children.

The only other relatives that seem to have arrived alone were the Duke of Kent - who is too frail himself to support the Queen - and Countess Mountbatten of Burma, which given all the rumours about her relationship with Prince Philip would have just caused a media field day had she been given such an unexpected role.

[notanotheroneagain]

We don't ever want to see Andrew's crusty face ever, most especially in a prominent role of walking HMQ down the row (don't want to say isle, obviously).

If you are worried about those with spouses, get her oldest grandson, Peter to accompany her.

Andrew must just slinker in on the side with either the plebs or the rest of the extended family and sit somewhere in the middle, not at the front. The camera can pass him over once, to confirm he was there, so no speculation. But pretty much be treated with as much significance (or lack of) as the extended family.

As it is, he had the prominent role of riding in the car with her, walked her to her seat, and stand by as she made her goodbyes etc.

[EdithWeston]

Were Sarah, Beatrice and Eugenie not there for Andrew to arrive with? They think he's fucking amazing

Don't think Sarah was there - certainly not up with the family, anyhow and possibly not at all. B and E were both with husbands, and came in through the front route with all the other 'senior' family.

I think it was entirely correct that DofY came in through the side entrance.

And pp is right that that only a few paces were broadcast.