Meghan court case live today

[callmeadoctor]

If MM's passport was locked away in a secure vault that she needed to beg to access it, I do hope she resorted to Mission Impossible style tactics to release the passport

@SickAndTiredAgain

I just do not think she would mention it if it was a uniform thing done for everyone

I can think of two potential reasons. One, she didn’t know it was done for everyone, and two, she did but left that detail out on purpose.

I can’t think of a reason why palace officials would, if they didn’t do it for anyone else, decide that Meghan must be kept prisoner. What motive is there for this? And if this was the case surely it could be fairly quickly resolved. She mentions to Harry “I was surprised they took my passport, why did they do that”. He says “what?? They took your passport?? That’s not normal”, and then he goes and tells his staff to give it back. I’m assuming it wasn’t the case that this happened and he was refused, because I’m sure she’d have mentioned that. “They took my passport and even when Harry tried to get it back, he couldn’t, that’s how controlled I was.”

As I said, I can totally understand why she wouldn’t want to give them her passport. If I was in that situation I’d have balked at it. I think it’s a reasonable example to bring up to illustrate the sort of life they were living, and how different it is to “normal”. I just don’t think it’s reasonable to assume she was unique in this, and that everyone else had their passport in a drawer somewhere in a palace.

Perhaps you are correct, and it was just an example to illustrate the kind of life they lead.

I still found it odd that the DM went on to 'prove' she was 'lying' by showing us other royals driving. And everyone lapped that up as one of the '17 lies'.

@rubicscubicle, of course she could! She needed to take the test, both practical and theory. Those are the current regulations BTW, I thought I would check and the Government website is quite clear on that. I am making the point that quite often there are reasons why things happen.
After nearly 40 years of interviewing customers on quite complicated matters it's frequently the case that there is a simple explanation for a lot of things. Although some customers just couldn't get it!

Watching her swan off to New York for the baby shower, or fly over to watch Serena play, she did not look like someone who was being prohibited from personal travel.

@StartupRepair

Watching her swan off to New York for the baby shower, or fly over to watch Serena play, she did not look like someone who was being prohibited from personal travel.

I know! I can’t believe people lapped that up.

The passport thing sounds like an example of standard protocol, but no one stopping to think of the increased impact it would have on someone who wasn’t British. She is naturally going to want to travel abroad more than Kate, for example, because her friends and mother live abroad. So I can see how it’s considered protocol, and not seen as being much of an issue because most international travel is “work”, with a few holidays thrown in. Whereas Meghan was used to flying back and forth from Canada all the time while dating Harry and filming suits, and would probably have expected that to continue to see friends, have the baby shower etc. So taking the passport felt like more of a control over her life, than it would to someone where most of their friends and family are in the UK.

Pressed send to soon. Meant to add at the end “even if that wasn’t the intention when it was taken”

Agree @SickAndTiredAgain, and the fact that she had travelled a lot in the past and been independently successful must have made it feel like more of an imposition.

For anyone who feels the letter Meghan wrote was cynical, how would you suggest dealing with emotional abuse from a close family member conducted via the tabloids?

The passport controversy reminds me of Princess Charlene just before she got married. She ran away to Paris and couldn’t fly gone because her passport had been taken from her.

I’m also reminded of the Spencers who said they could never see Diana once she was married to Charles as the courtiers and PAs told them she was too busy to see them.

Everything is murky in this world.

This is interesting, I agree Billius. It's strange to see the RF suddenly being defended as oh-so- accommodating on here. It's widely understood they're a nightmare to marry into, especially as a woman.

@SickAndTiredAgain

The passport thing sounds like an example of standard protocol, but no one stopping to think of the increased impact it would have on someone who wasn’t British. She is naturally going to want to travel abroad more than Kate, for example, because her friends and mother live abroad. So I can see how it’s considered protocol, and not seen as being much of an issue because most international travel is “work”, with a few holidays thrown in. Whereas Meghan was used to flying back and forth from Canada all the time while dating Harry and filming suits, and would probably have expected that to continue to see friends, have the baby shower etc. So taking the passport felt like more of a control over her life, than it would to someone where most of their friends and family are in the UK.

I can see your point in this one.

I would say it is pretty emotionally abusive when Harry spoke about his family being the family she never had. How did the Markles feel about that. That didn't work out too well in the end.

@StartupRepair

Watching her swan off to New York for the baby shower, or fly over to watch Serena play, she did not look like someone who was being prohibited from personal travel.

Seeing someone who had been married for around 3yrs, doing their own thing a handful of times, is hardly a gotcha moment.

She travelled with security / a small entourage, so even then , you have no idea who was handling the passports.

Appreciate this is diverting slightly from the main thread but when Meghan moved from being being a cable tv actress living in a rented townhouse in Toronto to a member of the Rf living initially at Kensington palace, did Harry explain ANYTHING about being a royal? Security, staff, protocol etc. Or did she just hear big budget for clothes and attending high profile events? Wouldn’t you be keen to learn and understand what the role as well as the marriage involved? After all she said she was keen to join as a working royal - hence her and Harry being given the Duke and duchess titles

I would say it is pretty emotionally abusive when Harry spoke about his family being the family she never had. How did the Markles feel about that. That didn't work out too well in the end.

Harry says stupid shit at times but you can hardly compare one comment to the Thomas and Samantha Markle debacle.

@Viviennemary

I would say it is pretty emotionally abusive when Harry spoke about his family being the family she never had. How did the Markles feel about that. That didn't work out too well in the end.

Don't see how the Markles could be offended by this considering they had not seen her in years. Doria was not, from the look of it, as she knew it was not refrain to her.

Harry has close ties with lots of cousins. MM is an only child between her parents, so is Doria. She did not seem particularly close to anyone other than her parents in the family, so Harry was telling the truth, his family is totally different to hers.

@StartupRepair

Watching her swan off to New York for the baby shower, or fly over to watch Serena play, she did not look like someone who was being prohibited from personal travel.

Indeed. She also went on holiday to Elton's place and stayed with the Clooneys at Lake Como.

@Billlius

The passport controversy reminds me of Princess Charlene just before she got married. She ran away to Paris and couldn’t fly gone because her passport had been taken from her.

I’m also reminded of the Spencers who said they could never see Diana once she was married to Charles as the courtiers and PAs told them she was too busy to see them.

Everything is murky in this world.

Yet Paul Burrell said that Diana had lunch with her sisters regularly and often met friends. Who knows.

Agree @rubicscubicle. On the one hand you have a single comment from Harry and on the other, the revolting behaviour of Thomas and Samantha and I believe another member of the Markle clan as well. How you could even compare the two is just beyond me.

And to repeat myself: for anyone who feels the letter Meghan wrote was cynical, how would you suggest dealing with emotional abuse from a close family member conducted via the tabloids?

I came to the conclusion quite some time ago that the problem was entirely mismatched expectations. If anyone starts a new job, or gets married or moves to a different country then they have their expectations of how 'things should be'. After the honeymoon period they then start to question why things are as they are. Meghan did all three, marry, move and take on a new role.
I suspect that she was unwilling to understand that the RF do things a certain way and consequently became very unhappy. Instead of staying and trying to change small things, so she was happier she upped and left. Sometimes it's just not possible to have everything the way one individual wants it to be, it happens everywhere.

What I found irritating was that Oprah challenged nothing she said, it was all swallowed whole with no questions at all. So much for journalism!

@SickAndTiredAgain

The passport thing sounds like an example of standard protocol, but no one stopping to think of the increased impact it would have on someone who wasn’t British. She is naturally going to want to travel abroad more than Kate, for example, because her friends and mother live abroad. So I can see how it’s considered protocol, and not seen as being much of an issue because most international travel is “work”, with a few holidays thrown in. Whereas Meghan was used to flying back and forth from Canada all the time while dating Harry and filming suits, and would probably have expected that to continue to see friends, have the baby shower etc. So taking the passport felt like more of a control over her life, than it would to someone where most of their friends and family are in the UK.

I find it hard to believe that MM was actually expecting to continue booking all her own flights and sorting out her own travel arrangements when there was staff to do it for her.

@Aspiringmatriarch

The passport controversy reminds me of Princess Charlene just before she got married. She ran away to Paris and couldn’t fly gone because her passport had been taken from her.

I’m also reminded of the Spencers who said they could never see Diana once she was married to Charles as the courtiers and PAs told them she was too busy to see them.

Everything is murky in this world.

This is interesting, I agree Billius. It's strange to see the RF suddenly being defended as oh-so- accommodating on here. It's widely understood they're a nightmare to marry into, especially as a woman.

Oh I’d never marry into the royal family in a million years! I just think that, on the control issue, Meghan wasn’t singled out. That doesn’t make it less controlling, but I don’t think there was a specific effort from the start to control her above and beyond similar royals (Kate being the closest comparison). I can see why she hated it, and can see why, apparently, Harry’s previous girlfriends didn’t want to do it. But I don’t think she was singled out to be controlled, as is sometimes implied.

I find it hard to believe that MM was actually expecting to continue booking all her own flights and sorting out her own travel arrangements when there was staff to do it for her.

Maybe. But it will have been a sudden, massive change from the rest of her adult life. I think she didn’t appreciate going in the effect that there would be on her personal life, not just the “official” side of things. Why would you necessarily assume that a personal flight would be dealt with by staff, if you’ve not understood the full scope of everything. To be honest, if it were me, I’d have been quite cross with Harry when it all dawned on me exactly what I’d signed up to.

Why would you necessarily assume that a personal flight would be dealt with by staff, •

Because you have just joined the most high profile and arguably the most well known family in the world. Because you now have 24 hour security and are now a major security risk . Because if your passport and/driving licence fell into the wrong hands you could be putting yourself, your staff your security detail and extended family at risk. All of this is pretty obvious stuff which she would have been aware of because even when Harry was making covert visits to her in Canada his security detail came too.

If it's true Prince William warned Harry to slow down then he wasn't wrong in my opinion.

He was working for W&K. He was later placed with H&M (maybe to keep an eye on them), whilst also with W&K. Later he goes back to W&K full time

Until Harry married, he and W&C had a joint office, and most of staff were essentially 'theirs' in the sense of working for all three. There was newspaper reporting when the Sussexes set up their own office. It seems unexceptional that some staff moved with them - it would hardly be fair if the Cambridges had kept all the experienced ones and left the Sussexes with new recruits. How they decided which of the shared staff moved over isn't public, but surely it would have been negotiated between the two households, also taking in to account the preferences of individual staff members.

JK moved from the Sussex household to the Cambridge one around the time of allegations of bullying, and the full reasons were never disclosed