The "Royal Racist"

[GrimDamnFanjo]

The discussion is still rumbling on...
Over on the Daily Mail site there's yet another article about whether H&M will name names.
This I found was interestingly written as it only seems to mention one other family member...

@Andylion

I don’t get this reasoning at all. So unless Meghan heard it herself then Harry must be confused?.

I've posted before saying that it is possible that Harry didn't think the statement was racist until he told Meghan, so, confused, no, but less aware than his mixed-race wife, yes, possibly.

That is possible, I must admit I hadn't thought of it like that. It definitely shouldn't have been said, at very least it's such a stupid, pointless comment and shows the level of intellect and awareness of the person who said it.

"recollections may vary" also applies to the allegations of racism - doesn't it?

Absolutely, yes; these were also part of the interview, so naturally it applies to them too

In the context of the post I addressed, though, I just thought it worth mentioning that the RF remark was an overall thing rather than being focused on the alleged racism

I wouldn't believe a word that emanated from the mouth of Bunker Henry or his wife on any topic.

Who the hell is 'Bunker Henry'?

Strange term. Maybe it's a royal I don't know about.

@Plumtree391

I don't know. She could apologise, it might help if it was heartfelt but then there would presumably be some proof of who said it if it was in a letter or email. A telephone call might be best.

Who is she?

@Iczelte

I wouldn't believe a word that emanated from the mouth of Bunker Henry or his wife on any topic.

Is that you Piers? I'm wondering if you name changed or signed up just to get this off your chest!

Oh no ! My cunning plan to infiltrate Mumsnet has been spotted.

I don't think anyone's recollections varied as to things like the 'secret wedding.' Obviously they weren't secretly married three days beforehand in their backyard, and they walked that one back pretty quickly when people started asking pointed questions.

I also don't see how they could have issued a more robust denial without knowing what was supposedly said or who supposedly said it. The best they could have done was ask everyone who talked to Harry around that time "Did you say anything to Harry that he could have interpreted as a concern about the skin color of his future children?" They probably did, and of course everyone said "Absolutely not!" Does that prove no such thing ever happened? Not really. Maybe someone said something like that and is lying, maybe no one said anything like that and Harry is either lying or misunderstood something, or maybe someone said something that could have been understood that way but has since completely forgotten about it. Assuming no one is lying on purpose, then their recollections do vary. It's unlikely that even a large-scale investigation would be able to determine the truth of exactly what was said in a private conversation whose two participants remember things so differently, and I don't believe attempting to verify what boils down to interpersonal gossip and pettiness between relatives is a reasonable use of resources.

Racism and Mental Health are NOT family gossip and pettiness.

They should have an internal investigation as swiftly as they investigated MM bullying claims - sent by a third party, in which the victims wanted nothing to do with, I may add.

One relative saying an unspecified possibly-impolite and possibly-racist thing to another, in a private social setting, where neither is employed by the other, is not at all the same thing workplace bullying. At most, it's a personal disagreement. I'd hate to live in a world where personal disagreements between relatives become deserving of full-scale investigations the moment someone who wasn't even there cries about it on Oprah.

I agree... and incidentally the 'investigation' into MM's supposed bullying has been quietly dropped. Now Jason Knauf has left, the members of staff have rescinded their claims.

How do you know Purple that what was said was not more than a personal disagreement. On here there was thread after thread about how awful Meghan was bullying staff, it was endless. She was called every name under the sun because she was a bully according to some.

Let's have some of the posters admit they were wrong. How hurtful it must have been to be in another country and - despite never having had anyone say you were a bully before ever - to be accused of this. It was a smear campaign.

So call it what you want as far as 'a full scale investigation' but the Palace were quite prepared to go for it with that weren't they? So why shouldn't what you call a possibly impolite possibly racist conversation not have a full scale investigation?
You can't have it all ways.

@PurpleOkapi

One relative saying an unspecified possibly-impolite and possibly-racist thing to another, in a private social setting, where neither is employed by the other, is not at all the same thing workplace bullying. At most, it's a personal disagreement. I'd hate to live in a world where personal disagreements between relatives become deserving of full-scale investigations the moment someone who wasn't even there cries about it on Oprah.

Come to Scotland it's happening here already under the reign of Queen Nicola.

@PurpleOkapi

One relative saying an unspecified possibly-impolite and possibly-racist thing to another, in a private social setting, where neither is employed by the other, is not at all the same thing workplace bullying. At most, it's a personal disagreement. I'd hate to live in a world where personal disagreements between relatives become deserving of full-scale investigations the moment someone who wasn't even there cries about it on Oprah.

See this is why victims of racism find it so hard to come out when they have being subjected to racism. Their experiences and suffering is used against them . Meghan had every right to cry on Oprah, cry in the car cry wherever. And she had every right to believe what Harry was telling her. I have heard years later about certain family members who were racist towards my mum & I when I was growing up but I’m glad I know now. Wish I had known sooner as life could have been more different and I wouldn’t have given them my time of day. So I don’t get the desire to constantly downplay , defend would be racist and make it seem like Harry lied to Meghan. I don’t know anyone who is surprised that such a concern was raised tbh.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-56364821

'Concern' about the implication of his colour. How is a family affected by a child's colour. This was in light of his status within the firm. It was concerning the crown.
Work-related.

Also MH was specifically asked of the HR. Work related.

Both need an investigation.

@Roussette

I agree... and incidentally the 'investigation' into MM's supposed bullying has been quietly dropped. Now Jason Knauf has left, the members of staff have rescinded their claims.

This is interesting, because from originally, the story said JK was the one who did this report and as soon as he had informed them, the victims told him no they were not pressing charges and wanted nothing to do with this. This was reported much earlier.

Valentine Low comes back just before the interview and revives the story, this time appearing on ITV and adamant that the bullying took place. He is suddenly sure that it took place. He then dithers when asked if he spoke to the victims directly, it is clear that he has not spoken to them, but has been assured by several people - I assume palace sources. From around 3.10 he talks about his interactions with the victims, it is clear he has never actually spoken to the victims.

What is clear to me, him being so adamant and making assumptions, and Chris leading line of questioning, the invisible contract is very much at play. This is clearly not an objective reporting.

That is interesting. And what a windbag he is

The “invisible contract” is doing a laughably bad job in this situation then, as the Palace comes out of the whole bullying complaint situation looking absolutely terrible.

It is a matter of fact that Jason Knauf made a complaint to the Head of HR at the Palace based on what he himself had seen and been told. The Palace did absolutely nothing about it however. Any ethical and conscientious employer is obliged to conduct an investigation into allegations like this or, quite simply, they are failing their employees. And they clearly failed them here. There was no investigation at all until some of the ex employees blew the whistle to the Times.

Whether any bullying took place or not on Meghan’s part, obviously nothing has yet been established. But it is absolutely clear that the Palace is an awful employer. I’m quite certain that that is not a position they wanted to find themselves in!

I also look at this incident in the context of Meghan and Harry’s claims that the Palace did nothing to protect them. In relation to the most damaging story of all - that a complaint of bullying had been made against the Duchess - they quite clearly covered that up entirely. If that’s not protecting her, I don’t know what it is.

How did they cover her?

It seems that the claim never even took place.
It was a smear that backfired as you said, it makes them look bad.

NO VICTIM EVER FILED A CLAIM AGAINST THE DUCHESS.

Victims of bullying are often reluctant to step forward, especially if they believe that nothing will be actioned against the bully. In this case , it is clear that the Palace failed in its duty to listen to those employees and investigate allegations. The Times report indicated that they had evidence to support their claims, and certainly no one would describe the Times as a tabloid rag.

Jason Knauf most definitely raised a claim to HR about the Duchess based on what he witnessed himself and what he had been told. That is a perfectly normal, appropriate (and indeed necessary) action to take when someone in a line management role becomes aware of such concerns. We know he raised this with HR as we have seen the contemporaneous email. So yes, the claim definitely was made (and has been acknowledged by Buckingham Palace as they have now appointed an independent law firm to conduct the investigation that they failed to do at the time).

So, unless you are claiming that the email was a forgery (good luck with that!) then the palace covered for the Duchess by firstly not disclosing the issue (when journalists were asking questions due to Melissa Toubabti known to have left on unhappy terms) and also shoving the whole issue under the carpet - not investigating, not helping the employees affected - completely failing in their duty of care to them, in short.

@dontyouwish2

How did they cover her?

It seems that the claim never even took place.
It was a smear that backfired as you said, it makes them look bad.

NO VICTIM EVER FILED A CLAIM AGAINST THE DUCHESS.

So why the delay in making the outcome of the investigation public? If there are no bullying claims and it was indeed a smear then make the outcome public now. One less thing for us to speculate about.

Or could it be that it has been delayed because there is some truth to Jason Knauff allegations?

@Plumtree391

listentomydeclaration, yes it was a C. A stupid one who hasn't learned to know better.

Charlotte, has to be Princess Charlotte

Senior Royal, bit of an attitude, doesn't know better.

@StormzyinaTCup

It's been dropped, that's why. As I posted, the claims have been rescinded.
So, no truth to Knauf's claims no