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The royal family

The "Royal Racist"

999 replies

GrimDamnFanjo · 26/08/2021 15:34

The discussion is still rumbling on...
Over on the Daily Mail site there's yet another article about whether H&M will name names.
This I found was interestingly written as it only seems to mention one other family member...

OP posts:
Why2why · 07/09/2021 18:04

Is there a reason they need to explain this to you? What is your obsession with their children?

Serenster · 07/09/2021 18:06

There is no definitive answer so far as we know, Maireas..

Omid Scobie tweeted after Archie was born that the couple had chosen for him not to have a title “all part of giving him as normal a life as possible”. That would obviously extend to choosing not to style them with the title available to them.

Omid’s re-issued Finding Freedom from last month however now contradicts that - he claims that "Palace aides were actually instructed to brief the press that the couple did not want a title for Archie. In reality, the couple did want the option, given that it would provide their son with a level of security that only comes with a title. The differential treatment the couple felt had been bestowed upon their son was a major sting to Harry and Meghan."

(Omid does not attempt to explain why the Palace would not have wanted Archie, and in turn Lilibet, to be styled as the children of a Duke for now, as the Edward and Sophie style their children, even if they are not entitled to be Prince/Princess yet).

There was also an (unsourced?) rumour that they didn’t like the Dumbarton title because it started with “Dumb”. That seems a bit spurious, though.

WinnieTheW0rm · 07/09/2021 18:07

@Maireas

Can anybody answer a question that I've asked before but can't get an answer to? Ok, we know why Archie and Lilibet aren't styled Prince and Princess, we know why. However, why haven't Meghan and Harry used their courtesy titles? Why are they Master Archie and Miss Lilibet, rather than Lord Dumbarton and Lady Lilibet?
No reason has been given, so the assumption has to be parental choice
Paquerette · 07/09/2021 19:01

@Serenster

There is no definitive answer so far as we know, Maireas..

Omid Scobie tweeted after Archie was born that the couple had chosen for him not to have a title “all part of giving him as normal a life as possible”. That would obviously extend to choosing not to style them with the title available to them.

Omid’s re-issued Finding Freedom from last month however now contradicts that - he claims that "Palace aides were actually instructed to brief the press that the couple did not want a title for Archie. In reality, the couple did want the option, given that it would provide their son with a level of security that only comes with a title. The differential treatment the couple felt had been bestowed upon their son was a major sting to Harry and Meghan."

(Omid does not attempt to explain why the Palace would not have wanted Archie, and in turn Lilibet, to be styled as the children of a Duke for now, as the Edward and Sophie style their children, even if they are not entitled to be Prince/Princess yet).

There was also an (unsourced?) rumour that they didn’t like the Dumbarton title because it started with “Dumb”. That seems a bit spurious, though.

It’s most likely due to PC’s aim to slim down the monarchy. I don’t think that any of the children from Harry’s generation have titles, apart from W&K’s, who are directly in line to the throne? Edward and Sophie’s children are Harry’s cousins, even though the age gap between them and Beatrice, Eugenie, Zara and Peter sometimes causes a bit of confusion.
Maireas · 07/09/2021 19:03

Thanks for your replies. (Waves to Serenster!)
Mulling over the titles issue, and reading some points on here, the choice puzzled me a bit.
It's all very perplexing!

Viviennemary · 07/09/2021 19:20

I read they didn't like the Dumbarton title for a child. For once I can't say I blame them.

smilesy · 07/09/2021 20:38

Do they not have any choice over the titles? I mean did they had some say over “Sussex” and did the “Cambridges”? I appreciate that there are only a limited number of titles that can be distributed, but surely they must have at least two to choose from 🤔?

Roussette · 07/09/2021 20:41

No, the Queen gives them out.

smilesy · 07/09/2021 20:42

Does she not even ask what they would like? I mean they may be attached to a particular geographical area 🤷‍♀️

upinaballoon · 07/09/2021 20:55

@GrimDamnFanjo

The discussion is still rumbling on... Over on the Daily Mail site there's yet another article about whether H&M will name names. This I found was interestingly written as it only seems to mention one other family member...
Meghan said, according to the transcript which I looked up, and I therefore hope was accurate, "That was relayed to me from Harry. Those were conversations that family had with him." Conversations, in the plural. Obviously, Eugenie, Zara and Beatrice.
Plumtree391 · 07/09/2021 21:11

@Viviennemary

I read they didn't like the Dumbarton title for a child. For once I can't say I blame them.
My virginity went in Dumbarton. Just saying.
Roussette · 07/09/2021 21:12

🤣😂🤣

I would just love to say where mine went but so so so outing!

Plumtree391 · 07/09/2021 21:13

Meghan said, according to the transcript which I looked up, and I therefore hope was accurate, "That was relayed to me from Harry.
Those were conversations that family had with him."
Conversations, in the plural.
Obviously, Eugenie, Zara and Beatrice.

Never. A couple of conversations with one prominent, senior royal which none of those are, apart from the fact they're all great friends with Harry, and modern people.

Serenster · 07/09/2021 21:14

It’s most likely due to PC’s aim to slim down the monarchy. I don’t think that any of the children from Harry’s generation have titles, apart from W&K’s, who are directly in line to the throne?

They don’t, no, but I think that’s a bit of a red herring here. Harry and William are the only grandchildren of the Queen to have been made royal dukes upon marriage.

A royal Dukedom, once conferred, is hereditary down the male line. After a generation or so the holder, who will inevitably no longer be so closely related to the monarch, will no longer be “HRH the Duke of XYZ” but will just be “The Duke of XYZ”. So, HRH the current Duke of Gloucester is the cousin to the Queen (and his father, also HRH the D of G was her uncle, as another son of George V). His son and heir however will lose the HRH when he inherits the title. It will then be just another Dukedom in the UK peerage.

The top ranks of the nobility - Dukes, Marquesses and Earls, by custom are able to pass on a secondary title to their oldest son, as a “courtesy title”. Their other sons and daughters are styled as Lords and Ladies. So, the Duke of Gloucester’s heir is the Earl of Ulster (he’s actually called Alexander), and his daughters are Lady Davina Windsor and Lady Rose Gilman.

So, as HRH the Duke of Sussex, with a secondary title Earl of Dumbarton, Harry is entitled to allow his son to use that as a courtesy title. Charles’ wish to slim down the monarchy and reduce the number of princes and princesses, won’t affect that - it’s the rules of the nobility that apply to this situation, not the royal rules.

derxa · 07/09/2021 21:16

@Viviennemary

I read they didn't like the Dumbarton title for a child. For once I can't say I blame them.
Dumbarton is a perfectly respectable place. The emphasis on the word is Barton. HTH
MissMarpleRocks · 07/09/2021 21:17

The title Harry may receive was discussed here

Royal wedding 2018: What titles might Harry and Meghan get? www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44123700

Viviennemary · 07/09/2021 21:21

The child is to be brought up in the USA where they wont understand that Dumbarton is a perfectly respectable place. They might not even realise that it is a place. All they will see is dumb.

derxa · 07/09/2021 21:26

@Viviennemary

The child is to be brought up in the USA where they wont understand that Dumbarton is a perfectly respectable place. They might not even realise that it is a place. All they will see is dumb.
Fair enough. I dub one of my sons Earl of Dumbarton. What are the benefits? Meanwhile in the real world.... Grin
Viviennemary · 07/09/2021 21:28

He could be Baron Kilkeel. Don't think thats much of an improvement. I looked it up.

Roussette · 07/09/2021 21:29

I presume 'The Child's is Archie??!
He has got a name...

I would hate one of my DC's being referred to as The Child.
Sounds rude

Viviennemary · 07/09/2021 21:32

Oh dear I apologise.

Roussette · 07/09/2021 21:38

Sorry Vivienne it just hit a nerve for me.
Ignore what I said

Puzzledandpissedoff · 07/09/2021 22:00

Dumbarton is a perfectly respectable place

Well, it was until Plumtree's virginity "went" in it

Makes it sound as if it caught a bus ... Grin

dontyouwish2 · 07/09/2021 22:25

@Puzzledandpissedoff

Isn’t it someone who was in charge of whether Archie was a Prince and had Security? The conversations were linked according to the interview

I thought H&M had rowed back on that one? Something about them now realising the title thing was a result of "protocol" rather than a deliberate snub?

Where is the link to this, as I have never heard of it.
dontyouwish2 · 07/09/2021 22:28

@Maireas

Can anybody answer a question that I've asked before but can't get an answer to? Ok, we know why Archie and Lilibet aren't styled Prince and Princess, we know why. However, why haven't Meghan and Harry used their courtesy titles? Why are they Master Archie and Miss Lilibet, rather than Lord Dumbarton and Lady Lilibet?
Meghan explained in the interview that they were never asked about the title, it was just announced. If you recall it was on the easel outside BP.

The press release came out from the palace with a Master.

Presumably, if Archie is already styled as such, it would sound strange for his sister to have a title if that is what they choose.

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