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The royal family

The "Royal Racist"

999 replies

GrimDamnFanjo · 26/08/2021 15:34

The discussion is still rumbling on...
Over on the Daily Mail site there's yet another article about whether H&M will name names.
This I found was interestingly written as it only seems to mention one other family member...

OP posts:
dontyouwish2 · 07/09/2021 22:30

There was also an (unsourced?) rumour that they didn’t like the Dumbarton title because it started with “Dumb”. That seems a bit spurious, though.

As far as I can tell this 'rumour' was started here on MN. It could possibly have been taken from the mn bible called blind gossip or some low feeder. But I have never heard of it outside of here.

dontyouwish2 · 07/09/2021 22:40

I don't think the slimming down included Harry. Why would he be a senior royal, and on top of that be refused to step down to a junior role like his cousins.

Also, when the patens were being changed, why was it not included and why make Charlotte and Louis prince and princess instead of saying, from now on the first born and all first borns after will be the only ones with titled.
In other words, if it was Charlotte born first, she would be Princess Charlotte and rule like HMQE, then only her first child like Charles would be titled (so no titles for siblings like Andrew, Edward, Anne), and then that equivalent of Charles first born like William would be titled (but not a sibling like Harry) etc.

Because as thing stand, the prince/ss titles end with Archie and Lili anyway. Hardly a big scattering of titles all over the place.

Plumtree391 · 08/09/2021 01:15

@Puzzledandpissedoff

Dumbarton is a perfectly respectable place

Well, it was until Plumtree's virginity "went" in it

Makes it sound as if it caught a bus ... Grin

I know, I suppose it was a bit like that but it didn't return Grin. I just didn't want to say I 'lost' my virginity which would make me look careless; I mean, I know how it...er...went.

I'm not familiar with Dumbarton, apart from the memory of that. I was visiting Glasgow at the time.

StartupRepair · 08/09/2021 04:47

I've always thought that prior to the wedding they should have sat h and m down and said that Harry would get to be an Earl just like Edward. Then when Charles became king Harry could be a Duke and kids princes if they wanted. This would have set expectations and showed them that their path would be different from the Cambridges. The Wessexes are a good model as the son of the monarch and retaining some privacy and normality for their DC.

Mothership4two · 08/09/2021 05:53

I don’t understand why they don’t name the alleged racist instead of being coy By not naming the person the finger of suspicion is pointed at everyone other than HM and PP... A cynic may wonder if that's the whole point

The cynic in me thinks all this drip-feeding is just to increase their profile and profits for the authors

Roussette · 08/09/2021 07:12

Where or what are they drip feeding now?

As far as I know, they said about this on the OW interview and afterwards have said they considered naming the person. That's it isn't it?

An unpopular view but to my mind of course they couldn't name the person!

Let's say it was C or W for argument's sake...the headlines would be.."The future King of Great Britain is shown to be a racist!!!'

This way, the RF can address racism within its establishment. Well, they should but not sure they will.

And before anyone says same old same old comment...no it doesn't put suspicion on everyone. There's many members of the RF it's obviously not going to be.
And I don't see endless speculation about this except on MN threads!

myrtleWilson · 08/09/2021 07:44

The easel just announced Archie's birth didn't it - his name was released by Royal Sussex 2 days later

Aspiringmatriarch · 08/09/2021 08:24

I agree Roussette. There's this narrative that they've smeared the entire family, which I guess is predicated on the assumption that they weren't telling the truth or that they somehow mistook an excited family member wondering who the baby would take after for a very different type of conversation. First of all, how likely is either of those scenarios? They would have to be completely batshit and devoid of any scruples to fabricate it, and while I'm sure they're not perfect, there's absolutely no evidence this is the case. As for misinterpreting - come on! It's easy enough to tell the difference between something clumsy and well-intentioned, and a family member sharing 'concerns' about how dark Archie would be, which however way you slice it is not acceptable!

We're talking about two adults who have both successfully navigated all sorts of different situations and people over the course of their lives, who felt strongly enough about what was happening to take a huge risk and walk away from the institution. That can't have been easy, especially knowing what we do about how they operate.

So no, it is not reasonable to assume they were lying or misinterpreting. Then we have the idea that they should have kept it to themselves. Why on earth should they? Apart from their own valid feelings about how they were treated, and the fact that they don't owe anyone the right to be privately racist and toxic, we're talking about an institution which is embedded into our society and purports to represent the countries of the commonwealth too.

If the RF don't want to be perceived a certain way (whether it be racist, financially dodgy, backstabbing, or AOK with sexual abuse and trafficking), the best thing they can do is behave transparently, have decent policies and staff, have a modicum of good judgement and show some real accountability. Are they going to do that? I'm getting the sense that maybe they're not entirely invested in that scenario. Hmm

Anyway, it doesn't smear the entire family. Does anyone seriously think it was Eugenie, Beatrice, Zara, Edward, Sophie, Fergie..? It does raise questions about certain senior RF members, and rightly so as we see in so many other ways they're not upholding the standards we should be demanding from them. If Meghan and Harry choose not to name names it's as a kindness to them and at least leaves the door open for those involved to redeem themselves and reflect on things without tipping us into a constitional crisis. Although I'm starting to think that wouldn't be such a bad thing!

Aspiringmatriarch · 08/09/2021 08:26

Sorry, that should say constitutional crisis!

ShippingNews · 08/09/2021 08:37

@dontyouwish2

There was also an (unsourced?) rumour that they didn’t like the Dumbarton title because it started with “Dumb”. That seems a bit spurious, though.

As far as I can tell this 'rumour' was started here on MN. It could possibly have been taken from the mn bible called blind gossip or some low feeder. But I have never heard of it outside of here.

If someone got on MN and asked if they should call their son Dumbarton, everyone would say "no he'll get teased and called Dumb" which would be quite understandable. I don't blame them for not using it.
Roussette · 08/09/2021 08:39

If Meghan and Harry choose not to name names it's as a kindness to them and at least leaves the door open for those involved to redeem themselves and reflect on things without tipping us into a constitional crisis

@Aspiringmatriarch

So agree with this. I too think they've done the RF a kindness, whilst allowing them to get their house in order.

Great post btw

(Cue someone on here posting about H's huge gaffe with the P comment, from which he's learnt and owned up to, and will bitterly regret the rest of his life.)

PearlyRising · 08/09/2021 08:47

I think it's predicated on the fact that they went on Oprah to get in their with "their side".

It's immature. Why do they need us to see their side?

Other royals have for centuries dealt with low public opinion.

Everytime you thought hopefully they'll get it now, they must be able to finally finally READ THE ROOM and lie low and stop lecturing us and stop complaining, then there would be spotify netlix oprah winfrey gayle king omid scobie headline.

They havent the sense they were born with.

Aspiringmatriarch · 08/09/2021 08:51

Why do they need us to see their side?

See my entire post.

Serenster · 08/09/2021 09:01

@dontyouwish2

There was also an (unsourced?) rumour that they didn’t like the Dumbarton title because it started with “Dumb”. That seems a bit spurious, though.

As far as I can tell this 'rumour' was started here on MN. It could possibly have been taken from the mn bible called blind gossip or some low feeder. But I have never heard of it outside of here.

If you’re trying to insinuate I made it up, it was very widely reported earlier this year - lots of Scottish papers picked it up, unsurprisingly! Here’s but one example….

www.heraldscotland.com/news/19395293.harry-meghan-dumbarton-title-rejected-archie-bullying-fears/

Honestly, since I feel like I’ve been Captain Factchecker on these threads for some time now, it’s amusing to think you’d suggest this was made up. I’ll let you in on a secret, I don’t post anything without checking my memory is accurate. Grin

PearlyRising · 08/09/2021 09:03

@Aspiringmatriarch

Why do they need us to see their side?

See my entire post.

I did. See my post.
StormzyinaTCup · 08/09/2021 09:06

…reflect on things without tipping us into a constitional crisis. Although I'm starting to think that wouldn't be such a bad thing!

Well we’ve had Brexit and COVID we may as well chuck in a constitutional crises as well!!😉 (although I’d prefer to wait until the Queen passes)

On other royal news (and I thought of you Rousette) Prince Andrew is playing at cat & mouse again - he and Sarah have nipped back to Balmoral!!!

PearlyRising · 08/09/2021 09:09

It is shocking that some can interpret going on oprah to smear the whole royal family as a kindness to the royal family. 😆

Aspiringmatriarch · 08/09/2021 09:14

But not shocking that you deliberately misrepresented what was said.

PearlyRising · 08/09/2021 09:22

Oh please. I stuck to the facts. They did go on oprah. They did a smear job.

Aspiringmatriarch · 08/09/2021 09:38

So to be clear, do you think that they were lying? Deluded? That it happened but it's not important?Or that they should have kept quiet for some other reason? I'm interested to know.

PearlyRising · 08/09/2021 09:58

To be clear, i think they are sensitive, self-absorbed and self-pitying due to the fairly low self esteems they don't recognise as their real problem.

They perceive people standing back cautiously and assessing them/her/their relationship as criticism and they lash defensively and destructively in reaction to that because they're not resilient enough or mature enough to just shrug and accept as a part of life. Not everybody is going to love you instantly. And that's their prerogative.

People dont have to love them or see their perspective on anything or support them or believe them.

They both need to work a lot on their sense of self.

They're too invested in who thinks what about them. Their story. Their side.

I hope they will get this one day but contrary to what harry has said i do not believe he is in therapy as a therapist would have told him that if he went on oprah, then he'd have to deal with the fallout of that, a pointless distraction instead of focusing on the original wound which he claims is there. And i believe him that his family has wounded him.

Serenster · 08/09/2021 09:59

@Aspiringmatriach I have gone back to find a post I made before the Oprah interview aired which sets out my thoughts about this.As I set out below, I think they used the Oprah interview to rewrite their history. Only the will know how close to the truth it was. The more they tell this story though, the more they blur their history, and the more the new narrative becomes as accepted as the real narrative.

“I don’t have any problem with the Sussexes playing the cards available to them and talking to Oprah, it’s been predicted for literally months now that they’d do a tell-all with her. My main issue with it is that they will doubtless use it to perpetuate the re-write of their history that they’ve been spreading since this time last year. It’s instructive to go and see what they themselves told us about their position at the time, rather than now one year on (all quotes below are from the Sussexxes own pre-prepared statements on their website, which they released on 8 January 2020).

In January 2020, when the couple first made their public announcement on their website, they definitely weren’t suggesting they were leaving their Royal roles. Rather, they announced that they had "made the choice to transition into a new working model”. Why did they want to do this? As they made clear, they don’t "benefit from their charitable and cause driven work” because "under the current structure and financing arrangements, they are prohibited from earning any income in any form”. The Sussexes however "value the ability to earn a professional income, which in the current structure they are prohibited from doing”. And so this is why they have chosen a new approach - it will "enable them to continue to carry out their duties for Her Majesty The Queen, while having the future financial autonomy to work externally”.

There’s no mention that their current public position is unsurvivable. Far from it. In fact, they intend to proudly maximise the Queen’s legacy "by supporting their patronages and carrying out works for The Monarchy within the UK or abroad, as called upon".

Their plan, clearly set out in their own words, was give up receive "funding through the Sovereign Grant, thereby making them members of the Royal Family with financial independence” (the Sovereign Grant provided 5% of their funding needs, the other 95% coming from Prince Charles). Their intention therefore was to still be bankrolled by Prince Charles, but no longer be subject to the Nolan rules, which prohibit them from benefitting financially from their position. This, they described, would "carve out a progressive new role within this institution” while they "continue to collaborate with Her Majesty The Queen, The Prince of Wales, The Duke of Cambridge, and all relevant parties”.

This remained their position for a couple of weeks, until the Royal family made it very clear that this was not actually possible, and they had to choose to either be wholly in (and bound by the rules) or wholly out (and free from them). They went for the latter, as they obviously wanted the ability to earn money. Prince Harry made their position perfectly clear at his January speech at a Sentabale event: "Our hope was to continue serving the Queen, the Commonwealth, and my military associations, but without public funding. Unfortunately, that wasn’t possible”.

It was then, and only then, that their narrative changed, to the toxic media and palace environment being “unsurvivable” and stepping back being their “ only option". It would have been perfectly survivable it seems, if they been able have the best of both worlds, as they actually wanted: the cachet of being Royal and the freedom to make as much money as they wanted because of it. They really don’t want to think of that now, though. And that’s why I side-eye this interview - they will doubtless make it clear that they are speaking their truth, as they like to phrase it. But I am pretty sure they won’t”.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 08/09/2021 10:23

dontyouwish2 I just looked up the bit about them "rowing back" re Archie's title and accepting it may have been down to protocol, and I see it was originally said by Scobie. Therefore please ignore that part - I'd link it, but don't really want to encourage more publicity for the grotesque

Then again, while I'm aware H&M have said repeatedly that they don't collaborate with him, it's also notable that (unlike many) he's not been sued for his blabberings .. so who knows?

Aspiringmatriarch · 08/09/2021 10:58

I take your point Serenster that the original statement didn't address these issues. But bearing in mind that at the time they were still very enmeshed with the RF financially and the final terms of how things would work constitutionally and with their public role were not decided. If you recall, their hands were forced with the public statement because (I think?) the Sun was planning to run the story, and as we now know they were blocked from being able to discuss it with the Queen and with Charles. Obviously you may not choose to believe that, but I find it credible.

Re the Sovereign Grant and Prince Charles funding them, my understanding is that only the Sovereign Grant is considered public funds and this is why they specifically stated they wouldn't be receiving it anymore, because media intrusion and general nastiness in the press on the basis of 'public interest' was obviously causing a lot of anguish. I'm not sure an initial statement would be the place to focus on that, generally people do like to emphasise the positives rather than starting a new venture with obvious bitterness, accusations etc. Was there anything factually untrue in their statement? Or anything they later rowed back on in the interview? I don't think so. They said they wanted to continue to serve, and that was repeated in the Oprah interview.

I think it was naive to hope there would have been that kind of flexibility but not because it's somehow unroyal to have a part-time role or to make money. There are examples of both in the RF, but clearly that wasn't what they had in mind for Harry. It was meant to be the Fab Four, wasn't it? I imagine the firm/RF members were furious about the whole situation and not in any mood to come to compromises. It's unfortunate because frankly there was nothing particularly outrageous about the idea and clearly the Palace knew behind the scenes that Meghan was in crisis. If there had been better handling of all that I doubt they would feel so aggrieved and very likely there could have been a halfway house situation to everyone's benefit.

So I don't agree with your characterisation of them as rewriting history. The fact is they'd been smeared in the press and weren't able to speak out - as Meghan said they were prepared to protect certain family members but not say anything in her defence when they were aware of lies.

So imagine you're being stonewalled by the institution that promised to look out for your interests, denied the appropriate help during a serious mental health crisis, and dragged through the mud on the front of the daily newspapers without any right of reply. I would personally find myself losing the plot in that situation.

It's the weird hybrid of family and the 'firm' and their relationship with the press, the need to maintain the status quo at all costs, that's the real culprit here. And I'm yet to hear any substantial reason to think it's all lies (i.e. a smear). Only people who think they should just lay down and accept it without giving their side of the story, or who have decided that Meghan is a narcissist or some such bollocks and therefore everything they say or do is automatically viewed through that lens. I think if you look at it more neutrally, nothing they've claimed is remotely difficult to believe. In fact it sounds very much like business as usual, I would say.

Aspiringmatriarch · 08/09/2021 11:05

Also, you talk about wanting the cachet of being Royal with the freedom to make money. Well, they have that. Harry will always be incredibly well known as Prince Harry, as Charles and Diana's son, and in due course as one of two children of the monarch. There really isn't anything that's going to change that 'cachet' as you put it, and the life they're leading is certainly not comparable to e.g. Edward and Wallis who had extremely questionable political leanings and no apparent interest in much beyond regaining their lost status.