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The royal family

The "Royal Racist"

999 replies

GrimDamnFanjo · 26/08/2021 15:34

The discussion is still rumbling on...
Over on the Daily Mail site there's yet another article about whether H&M will name names.
This I found was interestingly written as it only seems to mention one other family member...

OP posts:
Sh05 · 28/08/2021 21:26

@SamiReed1

It really irritates me when people so ignorantly say it 'was just curiosity about skin colour', 'it wasn't racist'. Do any of you not realise that a person of colour KNOWS DARN WELL when it is a racist remark, or something innocuous? Seriously? Do you honestly think we don't know the difference? When a person of colour tells you someone made a racist comment.....BELIEVE THEM! Don't attempt to invalidate our experiences.
But it wasn't said to a person of colour was it? Harry himself said the conversation happened with him and the other person and then he later conveyed it to Meghan so the person of colour didn't hear the remark firsthand!
SunbathingDragon · 28/08/2021 21:27

@SamiReed1

It really irritates me when people so ignorantly say it 'was just curiosity about skin colour', 'it wasn't racist'. Do any of you not realise that a person of colour KNOWS DARN WELL when it is a racist remark, or something innocuous? Seriously? Do you honestly think we don't know the difference? When a person of colour tells you someone made a racist comment.....BELIEVE THEM! Don't attempt to invalidate our experiences.
The issue with this particular comment is that the person of colour concerned wasn’t there to know how it was said to make that decision.
PearlyBird · 28/08/2021 21:33

@BadgerB

Surely only two members of the RF have a reputation for being "outspoken", the DofE and Princess Ann. As most Americans don't seem to have heard of Ann they assume it must be Charles or William. If H&M named Ann it would be a bit of a damp squib - "who's she??"
This is true.
FuckeryOmbudsman · 28/08/2021 21:34

I’m of the opinion that the only ref to color was someone saying they wondered who the baby would take after

Yes, I wondered if the 'differing recollection' included a next sentence about being ginger.

The two versions from H&M did make me think it was all a misunderstanding of some sort. It's really not clear what was said, in what context, and whether Harry then reported it accurately. Meghan has received hearsay, and no-one knows what really lies at the bottom of it all

Staffy1 · 28/08/2021 21:41

@ajandjjmum

Who is the stupidest one?
The one that’s being sued for past behaviour.
Staffy1 · 28/08/2021 21:43

@Plumtree391

Staff1, I meant 'reputation', not 'relationship'.
A bit confused with this as so did I.
SpindleWhorl · 28/08/2021 21:51

Didn't William supposedly have words with Harry when he started dating Meghan in a serious way, about what he was getting in to, to be careful, slow down, back up, etc? I imagine it could have been part of that conversation, when Harry said his intentions were serious.

Supposedly they had a falling out, iirc.

Zuluqueen · 28/08/2021 22:20

I believe Meghan a person of color would know the difference between ‘concern’ and curiosity when she heard from Harry. Why the need to minimize & defend this concern?

FuckeryOmbudsman · 28/08/2021 22:26

@Zuluqueen

I believe Meghan a person of color would know the difference between ‘concern’ and curiosity when she heard from Harry. Why the need to minimize & defend this concern?
Because no-one can possibly know his accurately Harry described it.

And that doubt arises because they have given two versions already

Hekatestorch · 28/08/2021 22:31

I am mixed race and both sides of my family wondered who my babies would take after. Absolutely wasn't racisim. Would the baby have my dark hair or their fathers lighter hair? My hair is straighter than their fathers, so we all wondered what their hair texture would be like.

All my friends of all colours had the same conversations. Regardless of the colour of their partner. Why would mixed couples not have the same conversation.

If someone tells me they heard a 'racist comment' then turns out they didn't, someone else told them about it. And then and the someone and them. Then couldn't even agree on when it happened, no I am not going to believe them. I am going to think that something isn't quite right. Especially, if they say a load of other stuff that isn't and has been twisted to suit their agenda.

Like archie wasn't ever going to be a prince. Harry's children weren't going to be. Due to them not understanding that (which baffles me) they decided to reject any other title. So it was reported they chose not to give him a title, which is true. They claimed he was blocked from having one. The Royal media team wasn't going to report 'they have rejected a title because they believe he is being refused a title of Prince because of the mother's skin colour' or the whole detail of what might happen when Charles becomes king and he might be a Prince or he might not and detailed explanation of how Charles wanted to scale back, long before Meghan ever was on the scene.

I was so happy when they got married. It felt like a massive step forward. I am not a royal fan, but it was important. I even though they made the right decision to leave, in the circumstances.

But they keep trying to drip feed information, because alot of their other things aren't well received.

Personally, I am of the opinion that alot of this is driven by Harry. I think he has told Meghan, half truths, said what he thinks she wants to hear, probably moaned and twisted things not realising how she (as a woman of colour) will interpert things. Then when she has a different take he can't back track.

So, I think, he he told her about the comment about the baby's skin colour, much later than it happened whilst relaying an unrelated disagreement. So she thinks it happened when she was pregnant and during an argument Harry was having. When in reality, it was a small comment about what the baby would like, made months earlier.

And quite frankly, given our media (and social media in general) can be ruthless, I would find it odd if no one has sat Harry or both them down to discuss potential hurtful things that may be said in the media / social media. A comment of 'there will, probably, be speculation in the media about the child's skin colour. Are you both really prepared for these things?'

They keep making huge mistakes and it's turning people off.

Like Harry complaining he didn't get his own wreath. It's not about him. He isn't a working Royal, he isn't a serving solider. How many normal ex soldiers get a personal wreath laid, in their absence, during an official ceremony.

Then they went and laid their own and were spotted by the paparazzi? No one believed that wasn't set up by them. If he wanted a wreath he could have got many people to lay one privately for him at any monument. Why did he want a public one? Laid at an official event.

The fact that he, a millionaire, sat and complained about being cut off when he quit his job, with a straight face was just ridiculous. On the back of a pandemic, where millions have been left with next to nothing. He complained his millions wasn't enough and he shoidn have received more on going support.

Although to be fair, her claim that she didn't know anything about him before they met, was all her and was just ridiculous. And her shock that he bows to the Queen, shows how she really had a very different view to how the Royal family worked, to how it actually does. Not sure if she was just working on assumptions or Harry had misled her into believing they were just a normal family, really.

But, I think they need to shut up. We all know that boon was written with their input and they are making themselves look worse.

BittaOrange · 28/08/2021 22:40

@fallfallfall

I agree with *@Tealwarrior*, when new babies are expected it’s normal to discuss who they’ll look like and color of eyes, hair, and skin tone. And reminding H&M that tabloids and media will be additionally interested due to skin coloring is not being racist. Knowing how brutal the media can be I think the person pointed this out was being factual.
This

It’s perfectly normal to speculate about a baby’s appearance. Why does it have to be deemed ‘racist’ when it could have been said in excited anticipation.

Diverseopinions · 28/08/2021 23:57

I think it is possible that a conversation about skin colour could have developed as a result of Harry's extreme naiveity (not sure of spelling) and lack of general knowledge. The comments and exchange he had with a relative, if they happened at all, could have later been referenced in a conversation he later had with Meaghan, and she appreciated the significance and scope for blame that the words could have had, if taken out of context.

Harry has been quoted by those who have overheard some of his insensitive gems, as saying things which could essentially be construed as racially insensitive. He may not have said these comments attributed to him, but how can we know, just like we can't know what any famous person has said in private. It is all hearsay. He probably hadn't intended to hurt anybody with any comments he is said to have made, but, nonetheless, it appears ' though recollections may differ' , to borrow a significant phrase, that he has said things which make it seem that he is not oblivious to people's ethnicity.

I would speculate - correctly or incorrectly - who knows, that Harry probably said to a family member, before marrying, that he was sure it would be no big deal, his girlfriend marrying into the Royal Family, because, she was an actress sure, and an American, so not used to the upper class protocols, but she was sophisticated and savvy and would quickly adapt. Someone may have asked whether he thought she would cope with the fact that her heritage might put her under the press spotlight more, and as far as historians are concerned- it being a rarity to have a non- white upper class person in the Royal Households of Europe. He could have said something like that she was mixed race and not obviously of a different ethnicity and so wouldn't be likely to attract added scrutiny, on that count. He probably elaborated and said that their children - which he was keen to have - would resemble a combination of Meaghan and himself, and so why the heck would the press write articles about how significant it was to have a non-white addition to the senior Royals.. At that juncture, the relative might have said "Sure, of course, but out of interest, you have heard of throw-back inheritance haven't you? You do know it's a scientific fact that someone might inherit eye colouring or height from several generations back. Not that it signifies, but you do know that it is a true scientific phenomenon?" . Harry probably said "Oh really? I never heard of that. How cool. So if we had Inuit members in the family 200 years ago, you or my cousins could have a kid who had a lot of typical Inuit characteristics ?" And then he was probably reminded - being not very observant or deep-thinking - that the British Royals used to marry only other European Royals, two hundred years ago.

Harry probably merrily asked Meaghan if she had any Mexican or Native American forebears, and wouldn't that be cool, etc. etc. ...and she being astute, intelligent and strategic, probed deeper about what he meant, and saw how the conversation Harry had had with a relative, could sound not at all enlightened, if related out of context. And Harry, not being astute, probably couldn't even remember to relate the conversation properly as it had happened, and he probably made it sound more offensive than it was.

That is one way the conversation could have happened with no bigoted intention meant. Or it could have just been a conversation wondering what the kids would look like, as many people speculate.

Diverseopinions · 29/08/2021 00:18

I don't understand the use of the word 'question'.

For nobody knows before the birth, who the baby is going to resemble, so why would someone ask: " Who is the child going to look like?". People don't ask questions which can't be answered.

People often speculate for pleasure and anticipation, but that isn't "asking questions", which sounds more like demanding to know the answer.

MargaretBall · 29/08/2021 00:46

These threads blow my mind a bit and probably explain why there is so much ridiculous stuff in the tabloid media about H snd M still - the cult of celebrity / kingship and why it must be enshrined to justify the archaism of a royal family. Anyways pretty sure it is well know as to who the very close blood relative of the queen and Prince Charles is ( and indeed had been mentioned on this thread and others before ) - they questioned the colour etc of any future children as a cautionary warning and deterrent against the relationship. Acknowledging the threat of racism and doing nothing to mitigate it when it is your power to do so is , I think , worthy of criticism. And the idea that the couple in question are drip feeding and manipulating the media , surely anyone with a bit of common sense can see where many of the stories are coming from , It’s in the shadows and yet so transparent if you bothered to look. A couple of hundred years ago it would have involved swords and daggers in the towers and the intent would have been clear , now it’s played out in the media to the gullible .

Howareyouflower · 29/08/2021 00:50

I thought it was leaked ages ago, and is now old news?

Plumtree391 · 29/08/2021 01:04

ajandjjmum

Who is the stupidest one?
.......
Someone who says very little and has reworked her character to the point of now being accepted by most people.

I thought both H&M heard it on different occasions.

Diverseopinions · 29/08/2021 01:07

It is within the power of the Royal Family to give honour and state occasions. The big and traditional wedding of Harry and Meghan, at which Prince Charles stood in for bride's father, surely shows an embracing of the union between Meghan and Harry. For most people, it was a wonderful traditional yet modern event.

@MargaretBall - isn't this wonderful occasion an example of trying to mitigate any racism that might occur and using the power you have to promote inclusion?

The Queen's comments have always been loving and encouraging to Harry and Meghan, even when they left their royal duties. Surely, also, for Meghan to go on a royal tour of South Africa and highlight her sense of closeness to the women she meets there, surely this shows monarchy being used to battle and belittle racism?

SpindleWhorl · 29/08/2021 01:31

It is within the power of the Royal Family to give honour and state occasions.

The Head of State. Not the royal family.

MargaretBall · 29/08/2021 01:33

I doubt very much anyone thinks it was the Queen (or indeed the next in line ) , as even if you don’t agree with the questionable concept of heritable status and power , she is indeed an exemplar . However , I cannot believe the institution of the monarchy has promoted inclusion given the endless diatribe that is published, these stories don’t come out of the ether , they are promoting a viewpoint, writing history . Rivals or threats to the status quo must be disposed, but now the weapon is the media. I often think that those who support monarchism are engaged in coercive control, forcing people to be royal because of their birth. And any attempts to challenge this enforced birth right /duty results in a degradation by media .

PurpleOkapi · 29/08/2021 01:33

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UrbanRambler · 29/08/2021 01:49

@Bluntness100

They didn’t seem to give different versions. They did give different versions, totally different. One said it was at the start of rhe relationship before it was serious someone commented on how dark would any babies skin be, the other said it was said several times when she was actually pregnant. Two very different versions.

They aren’t trying to clear that up. They just want to threaten someone.

Agreed. It was a none too subtle smear campaign, to garner sympathy and paint M as the victim. They didn't have the sense to get make sure their stories matched before blabbing away in the interview, and they don't care who is hurt by the speculation.

There was probably some casual speculation among the RF regarding the possible skin/eye/hair colour of any babies they might have, which is all pretty normal, but H&M have decided to put a racist slant on it. Attention seeking tw**s! In the event that a particular member of the RF was openly racist H&M should have challenged them on it at the time, rather than tar them all with the same racist brush in their [freely given not in any way paid for prime time interview with most famous talk show host on planet] interview.

The details of the financial contribution made either directly or indirectly (via Archie's trust fund/charitable foundation, or goods and services in lieu of cash maybe?) for this "not being paid for" interview, are bound to come out eventually. H&M are just not bright enough to cover their tracks completely and surely someone they've pissed off will leak the details eventually. It will be amusing when the truth comes out.

WolfFleeceSpotter · 29/08/2021 01:49

@Hekatestorch

I am mixed race and both sides of my family wondered who my babies would take after. Absolutely wasn't racisim. Would the baby have my dark hair or their fathers lighter hair? My hair is straighter than their fathers, so we all wondered what their hair texture would be like.

All my friends of all colours had the same conversations. Regardless of the colour of their partner. Why would mixed couples not have the same conversation.

If someone tells me they heard a 'racist comment' then turns out they didn't, someone else told them about it. And then and the someone and them. Then couldn't even agree on when it happened, no I am not going to believe them. I am going to think that something isn't quite right. Especially, if they say a load of other stuff that isn't and has been twisted to suit their agenda.

Like archie wasn't ever going to be a prince. Harry's children weren't going to be. Due to them not understanding that (which baffles me) they decided to reject any other title. So it was reported they chose not to give him a title, which is true. They claimed he was blocked from having one. The Royal media team wasn't going to report 'they have rejected a title because they believe he is being refused a title of Prince because of the mother's skin colour' or the whole detail of what might happen when Charles becomes king and he might be a Prince or he might not and detailed explanation of how Charles wanted to scale back, long before Meghan ever was on the scene.

I was so happy when they got married. It felt like a massive step forward. I am not a royal fan, but it was important. I even though they made the right decision to leave, in the circumstances.

But they keep trying to drip feed information, because alot of their other things aren't well received.

Personally, I am of the opinion that alot of this is driven by Harry. I think he has told Meghan, half truths, said what he thinks she wants to hear, probably moaned and twisted things not realising how she (as a woman of colour) will interpert things. Then when she has a different take he can't back track.

So, I think, he he told her about the comment about the baby's skin colour, much later than it happened whilst relaying an unrelated disagreement. So she thinks it happened when she was pregnant and during an argument Harry was having. When in reality, it was a small comment about what the baby would like, made months earlier.

And quite frankly, given our media (and social media in general) can be ruthless, I would find it odd if no one has sat Harry or both them down to discuss potential hurtful things that may be said in the media / social media. A comment of 'there will, probably, be speculation in the media about the child's skin colour. Are you both really prepared for these things?'

They keep making huge mistakes and it's turning people off.

Like Harry complaining he didn't get his own wreath. It's not about him. He isn't a working Royal, he isn't a serving solider. How many normal ex soldiers get a personal wreath laid, in their absence, during an official ceremony.

Then they went and laid their own and were spotted by the paparazzi? No one believed that wasn't set up by them. If he wanted a wreath he could have got many people to lay one privately for him at any monument. Why did he want a public one? Laid at an official event.

The fact that he, a millionaire, sat and complained about being cut off when he quit his job, with a straight face was just ridiculous. On the back of a pandemic, where millions have been left with next to nothing. He complained his millions wasn't enough and he shoidn have received more on going support.

Although to be fair, her claim that she didn't know anything about him before they met, was all her and was just ridiculous. And her shock that he bows to the Queen, shows how she really had a very different view to how the Royal family worked, to how it actually does. Not sure if she was just working on assumptions or Harry had misled her into believing they were just a normal family, really.

But, I think they need to shut up. We all know that boon was written with their input and they are making themselves look worse.

100% agree with this.
UrbanRambler · 29/08/2021 02:08

@Hekatestorch I think you covered pretty much everything in your post, and I especially liked your last sentence. Yes indeed, they need to shut up. But they won't, so while they are selling their stories for every penny they can get, they will have to take the rough with the smooth. Those who live by the sword, die by the sword, and the media is definitely a double edged sword.

It could have been so different, if M had just adapted herself to her new role, taken time to adjust to her new life and not played the prima donna. There was a massive amount of goodwill towards the couple when they married, and people had high hopes that M would inject a breath of fresh air into the RF, but instead she has soured all that and H seems to have lost the plot completely.

WaterIsBest · 29/08/2021 02:10

It was Princess Ann been known along time

GrimDamnFanjo · 29/08/2021 02:34

Hmm my take from the article is that it was comments from William or Charles.

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