Charles financially supported the Sussexes until summer 2020

[SnottyLottie]

news.sky.com/story/duke-and-charles-paid-substantial-sum-to-harry-and-meghan-after-megxit-but-couple-paid-back-rent-for-frogmore-cottage-12340192

Prince Harry revealed in his Oprah interview that the Sussexes stopped receiving money from the royal family in the first quarter of 2020. However, newly published accounts reveal that Prince Charles continued to financially support the Sussexes until summer 2020.

I wonder if this is going to be a case of their truth or incorrect wording on Harry’s behalf. Interesting!

@Coolandclamy

Take a good long hard look at the people who hate Meghan Markle. That tells you all you need to know.

Worse still, the monarchy should also see that it’s in trouble when it is supported by the far right in the US. Not a good look.

Who are they?

There isn't a nice clear tidy divide.

For example, most of the posters on here who criticise some actions, also support many others.

Polarisation and stereotyping achieves nothing and isn't really kind or helpful.

@Coolandclamy

Upinaballoon, I am sure you can find that info yourself (sympathisers of Nazi regime with their lovely family photo doing the salute, not allowing black staff to be employed as anything but domestic servants, abuse of a black staff in Clarence House and I could go on). All the info you ask for is available publicly. I am sure if it was about M&H you would have no problem finding it.

Putting aside the racist policy (one of which was recently exposed not to mention the Queen being exempt from the Equalities Act), the monarchy profited from slavery and colonialism. Lacks diversity even though it supposedly is friends with the Commonwealth, 60% of which is black and brown people.

But if you tell me that the BRF cannot possibly be racist nor can the monarchy possible represent racial hierarchy then I can believe you. Surely they are the paragon of diversity and equality.

Coolandclamy, I am not telling you or anyone that "the BRF cannot possibly be racist", but I am willing to shout to the world that I don't like generalisations. There are umpteen members of the BRF and I expect their attitudes differ, as do the attitudes of members of all families, which is why I get fed up with the assumption that every member of the family is racist, and the sweeping statements. I had not realised that in the wake of the recent report about the percentage of ethnic minority people employed by the RF, the Guardian had quoted information from half a century ago.
It wasn't only the monarchy which profited from slavery and colonialism.
I have been aware for many years that there were questions about the loyalties of the Duke of Windsor, in regard to the Nazi regime. I don't know if George VI and his queen were "sympathisers of Nazi regime" but if they were they sure pulled the wool over the eyes of the people of this country from 1939 to 1945.

The Nazi salutes were pre-war, when a lot of the British public thought Hitler was doing a good job - getting the German economy working again, helping prevent the spread of Bolshevism (the people who had murdered the RF's cousins). His attitude towards the Jews was a bit 'excessive' but a degree of anti semitism was fairly widespread across Europe and North America, including the UK.

You have to judge people's actions by the context of the time.

Oh, I understand it was all a long time ago and the royal family cannot possibly have a legacy of a racist mindset. I will look to them as the model of anti-racism. I’m sure most black and brown people will agree that the Royal Family was racist 40 years ago but not anymore. All of that ended immediately about 40 years ago. That policy ended in the 60s and immediately their mindset change. Hmmm, yep I believe that.

That's not what I am saying.

My point is that the Nazi salute photos of the early to mid 1930s are not proof of racism..

Harry's Nazi party costume, on the other hand, was worn when Nazi atrocities were well known.

For what it is worth I expect a number of members of the RF do hold some racist attitudes, as do many members of the public. Racism is so deeply entrenched in our worldview it would be very odd if not.

And some members of the RF, like some members of the public, have probably examined their belief systems and tried to change, while others insist there is nothing wrong except a few 'snowflakes ' making a fuss. Like Harry did when challenged about calling a colleague a P*

@ Allington.

Your posts are spot on .

@ChiefInspectorParker

I agree too Allington.

Many upper-class British people supported the Nazis at first, and antisemitic ideas/beliefs were much more generally held and ‘acceptable’ before the Holocaust.

So it was racist, but back when that was societally acceptable...so not racist?

Like the old American South? Do we think that was racist? Or not, because "everyone was doing it"?

Historical racism was racist, but now we name it so.

@Allington

For what it is worth I expect a number of members of the RF do hold some racist attitudes, as do many members of the public. Racism is so deeply entrenched in our worldview it would be very odd if not.

I agree, I suspect there may be racist attitudes (where did Prince Harry learn it all from?). There shouldn't be any allegations without evidence though, as we've seen in this thread.

What surprises me is the allegations were an attempt to dismiss criticism of Prince Harry dressing as a nazi. Are there seriously people who are such big fans of Prince Harry that they can't acknowledge and call out his racism?

Are there seriously people who are such big fans of Prince Harry that they can't acknowledge and call out his racism?

Of course not. I'm not excusing it. What a prat.

However, it is good that he went on a couple of equality/diversity courses and I am sure he deeply regrets his past racist words. Education is the way and I am sure he has learned and being married to MM will carry on learning.

@roussette

Ahhh equality/diversity courses. I know a man who's had to take 2 of those at his work place for using sexist language and guess what? He still uses sexist language but he's a bit more savvy about when to show his true colours. Also people who've taken speed awareness courses but continue to speed 🤷‍♀️

I reckon you can educate racists with all the facts but ultimately they don't change until they realise and acknowledge they are wrong.

No buts/howevers- criticism of Harry's racism is valid.

I don't think the world can be neatly divided into people who are racist (bad people) and people who are not racist (the good people).

There are extremes, of course, such as White supremacists.

A year or so after moving to South Africa I was getting a takeaway and a young black man kept trying to catch my eye. I assumed he was going to ask me for money, because there were a lot of people begging in that area, so blanked him. The friend I was with came back from the counter, saw him and said "hello X! How are you?" because he was a volunteer at the NGO we were working at.

Now, I have a terrible memory for faces and didn't work in his area, so not recognising him wasn't the issue, but I realised that I would not have blanked him if he had been white, even if I hadn't recognised him. I was angry with myself, and from then on challenged myself not to make assumptions about someone trying to get my attention (and not to try to avoid seeing the huge inequalities based on race, if I was going to say 'no' to someone asking for money I would look at them and say it directly).

Does that incident make me a Racist? Or someone who acted in a racist way and, having recognised it, changed the way they behaved.

My (adopted) younger daughter's paternal birth grandmother used to make a big point of the fact that DD2's skin is lighter than DD1 (the girls had different fathers). DD2 was angry about it on her sister's behalf (and DD1 didn't want to come to those meetings). The grandmother was black - does that make it OK to prefer lighter skin and see it as more attractive/desirable? Is she a Racist? Or someone with some racist views?

As with so many aspects of H&Ms claims, I just don't buy the idea that the whole mess is the fault of other people, that they have not done anything to contribute to the situation.

@BringBackThinEyebrows

I assume you are saying that everyone is like the person you know in work.

Does it matter?

Went down a bit of a Mitford rabbit hole for a while there and I hadn’t realised that Deborah Devonshire actually had 7 children, but four of them died the day they were born and she miscarried a twin ( the other twin died short after birth). How awful 😞. (Sorry for derail)

@roussette

I assume you are saying that everyone is like the person you know in work.

Oh that's a shame. Thankfully, no, your assumption is wildly wrong.

After reading back my comment, I'm confident that most people will understand the point I made- that being made to attend a course doesn't guarantee a change in behaviour or attitude. There's a difference between someone being sent on a course for doing something wrong as a box ticking exercise, and someone realising their behaviour is wrong and seeking out resources themself.

Best to just ignore any posts by me if you struggle with my wording.

Sorry?

I'm not struggling at all, thanks

You said that the person in work you knew, going on a course made no difference.

I posted to point out that won't apply to everyone.

You've confirmed that. Thanks.