Harry has a lot to answer for.

[Corcory]

I think Harry has a lot to answer for in this whole debacle. He's a 35 year old man brought up as a Royal who should know how the whole thing works and how to ensure his wife is fully educated in the rules and regs. of being a Royal. She was his wife, why on earth was she going to HR at the Palace for help with mental health problems? Harry has loads of experience and the knowledge of where to get help, what on earth was he doing? Harry knows full well that there is a rule about not being given a royal title when it comes to Archie. Why didn't he explain this to Megan? It has absolutely nothing to do with Archie's skin colour. Why is Harry moaning about having their security removed given his father paid £4m for their security after the tax payer stopped paying after they moved to California?
It is not the Royal family's decision whither or not someone has The Metropolitan Police fly over to do security duties.
Prince William sorted the press out when they were making disparaging comments about Kate, why didn't he put his foot down as his brother did?

I don’t feel sorry for him at all. I think he’s probably enjoying all the Hollywood A List stuff - it’s all glamorous and exciting after the dull old UK - and he has a beautiful wife and child plus another on the way

^^ This.

Totally what I think too.
He has the freedom he has craved for a long time.

irma What glamorous exciting A list stuff? They have been in lockdown for a year the same as everyone else! I don't think he will even had the chance to sample all this exciting/vacuous Hollywood debauchy.

If you knew Harry at all, you would know he loves country sports, polo, riding and shooting parties. He loves conservation and wildlife, and Africa! I am not sure he is going to get much out of the brash hollywood stuff when it eventually happens, trudging after Meghan.

I don’t think he’s found “freedom” - I think he’s just moved sideways to a different kind of privilege.

Polls show the approval ratings of H&M have gone down significantly on both sides of the Atlantic since the interview, although they remain more popular in the States than in the UK.

They must be concerned about this data, given that their wish is to continue with some sort of public service roles.

If you knew Harry at all, you would know he loves country sports, polo, riding and shooting parties

Ah, the hilariously batshittery of the overinvested poster. None of us know Harry or any of the RF in any meaningful sense and can have no conception of their insane, rarified existences. Honestly, some posters have invented these elaborate fantasies where they think they really know and understand these people, based on photos, interviews and endless media coverage, all of which is biased and much of which is lies.

you would know he loves country sports, polo, riding and shooting parties. He loves conservation and wildlife, and Africa! not any more, he loves yoga and veganism, and chickens. hope he loves that someone alerts the paps every time he goes on a bike ride too. that's his life now.

he's not found freedom, he's swapped one set of walls for another set of walls that look a lot higher if anything.

I don't think people who are happy with their lives do a public tell-all interview.

If it was all worthwhile, and they are now enjoying thier 'freedom', then surely they wouldn't be investing so much in their version of the past?

@Itsalonghaul glad you are in a better place.
Can I ask could your family and friends see the controlling behaviour before you could?

I don't think he has found freedom either. Getting photographed on the streets on your bike being followed by protection officers is hardly more freedom than he could have had in any European city.

A few years ago a European Prince (possibly Italian) was killed in London on a bike. I bet few people on the scene would have known that he was a prince.

@Itsalonghaul

Thank you sally I am in a great place now.

I look back and consider that it was a type of a spell. I was not able to fully articulate at the time, or even now. It is a very gradual process, you don't even notice. You fall in love, but it is more than that, somehow you become dependent and enmeshed very early on, it is you and them against the world. It is a romantic comfortable bubble that at the start feels special.

But then you start to lose autonomy bit by bit, all done very nicely and 'out of love' but the control extends to just about every corner of your life. After a while you begin to realise you don't recognise yourself, or your surroundings anymore. You start forgetting who you are, what you like, what your choices would be - your identity is almost rewritten. Your self esteem plummets and so does your confidence. Suddenly you find you can't leave, even if you wanted to.

Moreover nothing you do or say is listened to or respected, your voice is lost in the relationship and then outside as well. You can't imagine what your life, friends, values even looked like before. It feels like a different life.
It is a form of brainwashing. And it is all done with love and often ample affection, and often without even a cross word. You wake up one day and your life is no longer your own. You can't explain to the people around you, because you are a fully grown adult, that you are in trouble. Even if you had someone to tell, because by then you are isolated, cut off and without any support and have been for years. Your friends have long since given up. It is pretty desperate.

I am invested in anyone that is trapped in a similar situation to me twenty years ago, that is why I have pretty much devoted my life to helping others. I know what I see, and I will leave it at that.

I am interested in what the turning point was for you if you don’t mind talking about it. You out this so eloquently, and I’m so glad you got out and are happy now. We all know people in relationships like this. It’s chilling.

we were talking the other day about women marrying into royalty/aristocracy. I completely forgot Princess Angela of Liechtenstein. Panamanian-American, check out her wedding dress too.

The weird thing is talking to people about it, there seems to be the idea that MM was totally right to do the interview so she could defend herself . The problem however with the logic is that apparently everyone in the RP knew what happened about the disagreement with Kate, so the only people who didn't know was the general public, and I genuinely don't understand why that's such a big issue for MM?

head Actually without being too outing, I am very aware of Harry in his younger days, and his hobbies as I used to watch him play at the Cirencester Polo Club. You should be careful before you assume that no one knows him and we are all guessing. I will leave that there.

lock My friends were confused, they could see I was in love and were happy for me initially, but then became worried. I just fell of the radar, as I would try to see them, and he would make suggestions we did something together, or that he didn't feel well etc. It was nothing anyone could put their finger on.
He would watch me walk around the room at parties, and I would feel on edge. Then eventually the parties just didn't happen. He would insist always to pick me up when I did go out with friends, and cut my evening so short by making it so early it was embarrassing.
They would ask if everything is okay, and I would always say it was, because I didn't know it was happening. I became quieter, more private. Not able to share the truth with them. That I felt stifled and scared I was losing myself. I was ashamed. Lots of my friends knew, but didn't get involved, didn't know how to. If he had been hitting me I am sure they would, but it was so slow and incremental.

I tried to break out by doing things on my own, but somehow he would always crush my confidence, and I would question myself, and then wouldn't go. 'I don't think thats really you', 'I don't think you really want to to go there, it is a vulgar pub and you know it always ends badly with those friends'. 'You know I don't like it when you wear too much make up, you are beautiful as you are'. It was a million small things that sound like nothing at all, but add up to the loss of self. I couldn't choose holidays, paint colour, clothes or even see a friend without his involvement. He just took over everything in my life, eventually even my bank account because according to him I was so poor with money I needed his help! I actually believed all of this at the time. I was young and felt he wanted the best for me.

When I think what friends could have done, it is very hard, because what can you actually say? It is very difficult, and many people choose to distance themselves as they felt unsure how to help or felt that I had dropped them when nothing could be further from the truth.

I feel she has sold him her dream and dressed it up as his idea.

One day I was sick and tired of feeling so suffocated. I could not do it any longer. I would look in the mirror and see a stranger. I started to try to assert my needs and wishes, and he became quite aggressive and hateful towards me, openly hostile. Eventually I started standing up for myself, and without my wonderful friends I am not sure I would ever have left him. He followed me for months afterwards, the police got involved, as it was stalker stuff. He just could not bear it. We got there eventually. I feel sorry for the person he is with now, I often think of it.

I think the only winner in this is Oprah. And yes, she is also an exceptional actress.

@Itsalonghaul Thank-you for your insight.
I did think that there wouldn't be much anyone on the outside could do, change needs to come from the person being controlled.
I really am glad that you are in a better position now.

@Itsalonghaul

head Actually without being too outing, I am very aware of Harry in his younger days, and his hobbies as I used to watch him play at the Cirencester Polo Club. You should be careful before you assume that no one knows him and we are all guessing. I will leave that there.

lock My friends were confused, they could see I was in love and were happy for me initially, but then became worried. I just fell of the radar, as I would try to see them, and he would make suggestions we did something together, or that he didn't feel well etc. It was nothing anyone could put their finger on.
He would watch me walk around the room at parties, and I would feel on edge. Then eventually the parties just didn't happen. He would insist always to pick me up when I did go out with friends, and cut my evening so short by making it so early it was embarrassing.
They would ask if everything is okay, and I would always say it was, because I didn't know it was happening. I became quieter, more private. Not able to share the truth with them. That I felt stifled and scared I was losing myself. I was ashamed. Lots of my friends knew, but didn't get involved, didn't know how to. If he had been hitting me I am sure they would, but it was so slow and incremental.

I tried to break out by doing things on my own, but somehow he would always crush my confidence, and I would question myself, and then wouldn't go. 'I don't think thats really you', 'I don't think you really want to to go there, it is a vulgar pub and you know it always ends badly with those friends'. 'You know I don't like it when you wear too much make up, you are beautiful as you are'. It was a million small things that sound like nothing at all, but add up to the loss of self. I couldn't choose holidays, paint colour, clothes or even see a friend without his involvement. He just took over everything in my life, eventually even my bank account because according to him I was so poor with money I needed his help! I actually believed all of this at the time. I was young and felt he wanted the best for me.

When I think what friends could have done, it is very hard, because what can you actually say? It is very difficult, and many people choose to distance themselves as they felt unsure how to help or felt that I had dropped them when nothing could be further from the truth.

I feel she has sold him her dream and dressed it up as his idea.

One day I was sick and tired of feeling so suffocated. I could not do it any longer. I would look in the mirror and see a stranger. I started to try to assert my needs and wishes, and he became quite aggressive and hateful towards me, openly hostile. Eventually I started standing up for myself, and without my wonderful friends I am not sure I would ever have left him. He followed me for months afterwards, the police got involved, as it was stalker stuff. He just could not bear it. We got there eventually. I feel sorry for the person he is with now, I often think of it.

That's a very sobering read. Thank you for sharing. I think many of us feel instinctively this is happening, and that's why there is such unease.

@redspecial I think it’s a load of nonsense but I do think something clearly went on when the dresses were being fitted. It’s not a reflection on anyone in particular as people get stressed at weddings.
On the other hand, why did MM have to throw a negative light on her visit to Wimbledon with Kate? I think she said something like ‘things aren’t always what they seem’. She seems to want to burn bridges with the Cambridges.

Burn her Cambridges?

My impression is that MM wants devotion and admiration from her people. If someone doesn't think she is absolutely The Best, they are evil and cast aside or tarnished. To me, she comes across as deeply insecure. She cannot stand people thinking she is not the bees’ knees.

To me, she comes across as deeply insecure.

Very much, which is sad because it undermines everything good in your life if you feel like that. To quote John Lennon: 'one thing you can't hide, is when you're crippled inside'

I agree.

@GoLightlyontheEarth

I think she's saying as much as she can without saying 'Actully I loathe the bitch'.

They really are short sighted. They were glowing about the Queen while knifing Charles and the Cambridges in the back. Charles will very likely be king by the end of the decade while the spotlight will very much be on Kate and William. I can’t imagine they’ll ever be welcome at another royal event so there won’t be much royal connection to milk. They’ll become as, if not more, irrelevant as the Duke of Windsor,

That is a good question @ilovemydogandMrObama Its a neat trick if she wanted to pre-empt or discredit someone in case there's an outside chance they ever tell 'their' side of events. I know a playground mum who does this, she's horrendous.

@Lauren15 I thought that too but something has clearly happened, plus she's taken a huge dislike to her SiL for whatever reason (shame as she seemed close to H). taken alongside the Australian tea throwing story and similar, and palace staff now being questioned about bullying, something pongs somewhere.

Associated News are appealing Warby's decision, according to the beeb today. She's shown she's not the least bit interested in her privacy. And keeps palace emails after all. The professional team who surrounded her and mop up any mess won't be in a protective mood after being dismissed to the world as 'grey suits' if it goes to court.

They should not have done this show. It was bound to unravel and they'll both regret it in time I think.

Do you think they’re actually capable of self reflection or regret though? I don’t. I think they’ll just find another way for it to be someone else’s fault.