Harry has a lot to answer for.

[Corcory]

I think Harry has a lot to answer for in this whole debacle. He's a 35 year old man brought up as a Royal who should know how the whole thing works and how to ensure his wife is fully educated in the rules and regs. of being a Royal. She was his wife, why on earth was she going to HR at the Palace for help with mental health problems? Harry has loads of experience and the knowledge of where to get help, what on earth was he doing? Harry knows full well that there is a rule about not being given a royal title when it comes to Archie. Why didn't he explain this to Megan? It has absolutely nothing to do with Archie's skin colour. Why is Harry moaning about having their security removed given his father paid £4m for their security after the tax payer stopped paying after they moved to California?
It is not the Royal family's decision whither or not someone has The Metropolitan Police fly over to do security duties.
Prince William sorted the press out when they were making disparaging comments about Kate, why didn't he put his foot down as his brother did?

See.... I feel different (surprise surprise!)

I think he's been a square peg in a round hole for a long time. He hasn't been happy in the RF for a long time. He's craved something different and now he's found it.

He said this in the interview. He's finally free. Free from the archaic instituion that is the RF.
Everything I read about 'Harry isn't happy' is in the Sun, the Express and the DM.
But dig deeper and there are other viewpoints out there. I think he still has connections with the military through Invictus, they will carry on with issues close to their hearts, and there is no stifling of them in the future. He has the freedom he has craved for a long time. So as much as we think 'awful evil woman taking him away from his family because he's been coerced into this'... I think nothing could be further from the truth. This is the opportunity he has always wanted.

Even the Queen has said she is delighted they have found happiness and that she has seen him struggle with his position in the family. I think that time heals, and the brothers will be close again but in a different way. One will be heir to the throne, one living in the US. And we won't know about it.

As for saying 'she will never be welcome here again'. Well...that's ridiculous.. if his brother William and father welcomes him here, I'm sure the country will too.

I am sure this view will go against what a fair few posters on here think, but I've posted similar over the years since they met. And I don't feel any different now than I did then.

@Itsalonghaul

Meghan has everything she wanted agreed, the huge fabulous house with famous friends, the prince and world wide attention and fame and money. Job done.

Harry on the other hand has lost everything, his family, his friends, his military titles, his home, his hobbies, his lifelong work and charities, his connections with the British army and veterans and all the love and goodwill of the British people. In a word, he has lost absolutely everything.

When the dust settles at some point this will all dawn on him.

In any other scenario if this happened to a normal woman here in MN we would certainly consider it abusive and manipulative. I am not sure why it would be viewed any other way just because it happens to be a man.

Harry can always return to his family and to our country if he needs and wants to, the door will never be closed for him - but not with Meghan, she will never be welcome here ever again.

I would say Harry has remnants of those things left - some friends, some charities, the veterans - but whether that is enough, alongside his new media/commercial ventures, to thrive, never mind survive, is another matter

Harry is on record as saying that he wanted to leave the royal family and leave the UK. I heard that years ago, him wanting to do conservation work in Africa, or live in New Zealand. I think Meghan has possibly given him the courage to break away, although the claims in the interview that they "didn't want to leave" are contradictory. Who knows. I hope Harry can make it up with William for Diana's memorial in July.

@Roussette I agree that he didn't really fit and felt restricted but on the other hand he seemed happy to live the lifestyle that goes with such huge wealth. He would have been free to drop out at any time, he isn't the heir and I think Q would have accepted and sympathised.

But he didn't go. He chose to stay, he chose to have the big hoo-hah wedding with M, he chose to do bloody boring royal duties. Now he chooses to go but still wants to use that connection and complain about his family in public. Either go or stay, he shouldn't try to have it both ways.

rousette I am not sure if you live in the UK or not, but you have spun a very optimistic tone around this. I personally can't think the family will ever recover from this. I guess if Harry found himself separated possibly, but only under those circumstances. It is unforgivable to try and crush the RF like Meghan (with Harry's permission) has done. I don't share your hope for a reunion any time soon.

But I do hope you are right, that Harry is a square peg and he is free. It is a nice thought that he will be happy after everything he has given up. I really sincerely hope they will be happy, they have very young children caught up in this mess and you want to hope that they will now just get on and enjoy those little ones whilst they still can, without all of this toxic drama.

I will say now that I think it is awful that they did not think of the damage this will cause Archie. It is pretty devastating to learn the whole world thinks your family were racist about you. Equally devastating to grow up thinking you were rejected and not valued by them (even if in truth you were loved) A whole new generation of damage is happening right now to the Sussex children.

Even if you do think Harry's family have behaved badly, might it have been better for your own children to keep it quiet and away from them? To protect them from all of this until they are older? Not announce it to the whole world.
Surely it is better to allow your dc to feel loved by their grandparents, and develop a relationship with cousins etc. So much has been taken from Archie in all of this, and yet no one ever talks about it, but I find it so sad for him to grow up in such a toxic atmosphere like this. No one is thinking of his needs.
I have a dodgy family, downright abusive in fact, but my children would never have guessed - we just kept them at arms length and didn't dwell on it. I wanted my dc to grow up innocent and happy and not living under a cloud. I waited until they were young adults before I told them the truth. I didn't lie but just didn't go there whilst they were young. I just protected them from it all. Archie deserves the same protection as my dc in my view, but now the whole world knows, he will never get away from it. I hope it doesn't define him. MM reminds me alot of my own narc mother! It is all about her, and never about me. Same can be said for Archie. He will end up damage if they persist with this.

*damaged

itsalonghaul. You're right, looking at it from a child's perspective, press reports from your early childhood implying that your father's family think less of you because you are bi-racial? By putting no context or name to this claim, it will make it harder for H&M's children to have relationship with the RF if that is what H&M want.

I personally can't think the family will ever recover from this.

@Itsalonghaul I totally agree, the scar will be permanent. If H&M separate he would of course come back and be welcome but it won't be the same.

Also totally agree about Archie and the coming baby. OK, there's a lot of children in the world in far far worse situations, I know they will be wealthy and beloved but still it's sad.

Those are good points, @Itsalonghaul.
I never met my father's mother for many years, because my own mother fell out with her. Me and my siblings were fed a lot of stories about her, which turned out to be - at best - exaggerations. So we had no relationship with this grandmother, and she never saw us. It's sad when this happens.
I think you did the right thing with your children, and credit to you for not telling them bad stuff.

Their behaviour is so short-sighted and all about them, the adults. H is ill equipped to put a stop at this train wreck behaviour. Sadly their kids will read all about this when they're over. I will be amazed if the relationship with the RF recovers from this.

Itsalonghaul
Yes, I'm UK !

I personally can't think the family will ever recover from this
The royal family have gone through far far worse than this over the years. Abdication, divorces, tell all interviews, close members of the RF having affairs and huge scandal.
I just don't think this is something they won't recover from by any stretch of the imagination.

I just don't think Archie is growing up in a toxic environment. He has two parents who love him to bits, a sister on the way etc. Don't we all have some of our family that we are less close to or there's been problems or arguments? Then it all blows over.

Archie is only nearly 2, he won't know about this! By the time he reaches the young adult age you talk about, it will be yesterday's news.
We've had divorces in our family, huge upsets but it's just not important now, really it isn't. It's in the past, we get on as much as we want to, and all is fine.

And I think Harry and the royal family will have the relationship that works for them too, in years to come.

They aren’t like any other family though are they? Everything is being played out in a world stage. They are in a hugely unusual situation . Harry has sold his family down the river in spectacular fashion and the damage will be permanent. Also Archie will not know his fathers family because they aren’t going to visit and M will never set foot in the UK again if she can help it. We’ll see what happens.

Rousette. I hope you are right but the difference is that those were largely scandals, H&M have made it personal in a way that has gone way beyond what Diana said in her tell-all interview.

and Archie will know about it because it will be raked up and over in the press - the next time he meets any member of the RF.

The gossip about Diana's affair with James Hewitt and Hewitt being Harry's father has circulated for years, despite it patently being untrue - both in timings and the fact that Harry looks like Charles' side of the family.

So no, press reports and tittle-tattle do not go away.

I am not sure ... the scandals, and there were many, back then were pretty awful. Diana made it all very personal ! Not sure how you can say she didn't. ??
She questioned if Charles should ever be king, she talked of her depression, her mental health, how she got little support at the time, his affair, how she had loved someone else, how she had bulimia, how she was called mentally unstable by the men in grey suits... and so on

All the royal cousins seem pretty close, in Harry's generation. The Spencer cousins seemed close to Harry too.
As Meghan doesn't seem to have family beyond her mother, this is something the kids will miss out on.
My own children grew up quite far from their cousins, they have seventeen first cousins, but have always liked meeting them. A lot live in other countries, now they are adults they could visit for weekends if we weren't stuck at home.
I hope they can sort out some sort of private compromises.

and Archie will know about it because it will be raked up and over in the press - the next time he meets any member of the RF

Same as William knew all that in my last post.
He's doing OK isn't he?

@Roussette

Itsalonghaul Yes, I'm UK !

I personally can't think the family will ever recover from this
The royal family have gone through far far worse than this over the years. Abdication, divorces, tell all interviews, close members of the RF having affairs and huge scandal.
I just don't think this is something they won't recover from by any stretch of the imagination.

I just don't think Archie is growing up in a toxic environment. He has two parents who love him to bits, a sister on the way etc. Don't we all have some of our family that we are less close to or there's been problems or arguments? Then it all blows over.

Archie is only nearly 2, he won't know about this! By the time he reaches the young adult age you talk about, it will be yesterday's news.
We've had divorces in our family, huge upsets but it's just not important now, really it isn't. It's in the past, we get on as much as we want to, and all is fine.

And I think Harry and the royal family will have the relationship that works for them too, in years to come.

It’s not ‘some’ of their family, it seems to be all of each side they have fallen out with, barring her mother and possibly his grandmother.

Presumably they have wills made, and have gone through the dilemma of who to name as guardians to their kids. We had to do this, and appoint trustees. Thankfully our kids are now adults, but it would focus ones mind on the importance of family and friends. Especially if there is an international aspect.

Has Harry fallen out with the Spencer family too?

Hopefully not. I admit I meant immediate family and of course cousins and aunts and uncles could be useful bridges.

rousette I really have to disagree. Of course normal families fall out and have divorces and bad feeling all the time, but they don't go on Oprah and tell the world about it!
Nor do they generally call their family members racists and ignorant of mental health.

Archie will absolutely hear all of it probably before his seventh birthday (most likely from someone unkind in the playground) and can you imagine how devastating it actually is to learn that your mother felt suicidal whilst pregnant with you, and not only did she feel suicidal but she told the whole world about as well?

Seriously how can you possibly imagine this will not affect him on a very deep and personal level? She said she felt like ending her life, his family was questioning the colour of his skin and to add insult to injury they said the RF decided Archie was not worthy of any titles or security. And you seriously think that it won't hurt him?

I can't actually think of a narrative that is more harmful to a small child, H&M are so wrapped in their poor me mindset they haven't even considered how this is likely to affect him.

Other children may well tease him about it, it will be common knowledge everywhere he goes for the rest of his life. Thanks to the interview. It could and should have been avoided at all costs. They should have just restarted their lives in the US and put their son first.

I do feel strongly that this was a bad decision, and as for it blowing over. Not a chance. The interview was so wounding, I can't think either H or M will ever come back. Beyond Doria (whom has been in and out of MM life by all accounts, so maybe not the stable presence she needs) they have absolutely no one, they have ostracised every single person around them. It is Archie I feel sorry for, he has to live with this now, and he is just a small child who did not ask for such acrimony.

,

You keep talking of Archie, and making it all so dramatic. What about William then and what he heard his mother talk about? Or tampon gate? He's still close to his dad.

You say about telling the world... well, yes, like Diana.

All that you have said is no different to William and Harry and their mother's interview, and the gossip with Camilla etc. You are making out that Archie is going to be teased mercilessly and like it's the end of the world! More likely there will be sympathy for him.

I think it's very wrong to cast aspersions on Doria by the way. Unfair to criticise a mother/daughter relationship you know nothing about.

We can agree to disagree because there's lots you've said there that I really don't agree with!
But no point hashing it over. Just different opinions on a forum.