Harry has a lot to answer for.

[Corcory]

I think Harry has a lot to answer for in this whole debacle. He's a 35 year old man brought up as a Royal who should know how the whole thing works and how to ensure his wife is fully educated in the rules and regs. of being a Royal. She was his wife, why on earth was she going to HR at the Palace for help with mental health problems? Harry has loads of experience and the knowledge of where to get help, what on earth was he doing? Harry knows full well that there is a rule about not being given a royal title when it comes to Archie. Why didn't he explain this to Megan? It has absolutely nothing to do with Archie's skin colour. Why is Harry moaning about having their security removed given his father paid £4m for their security after the tax payer stopped paying after they moved to California?
It is not the Royal family's decision whither or not someone has The Metropolitan Police fly over to do security duties.
Prince William sorted the press out when they were making disparaging comments about Kate, why didn't he put his foot down as his brother did?

If they ever do split, I think the fall out will be worse. Harry will have told Meghan all sorts of things. She will not hesitate to use this against him.

Oh God, I didn't even think about this, but yes, I can totally see this now.

I could forgive my family for almost anything but I could never forgive them for being racist towards my child. You do realise that being racist is a million times worse than accusing someone of being racist, don't you?

She's allowed the accusation to hang like a storm cloud over the whole family because she won't actually say who the person was or exactly what they said. All family members have therefore wound up being implicated even if they didn't say anything. I would be really really angry if I was one of the people who had never said anyone dodgy but was having my reputation smeared anyway by association.

The D of E's mother had two aunts and five cousins killed by the Bolsheviks after the Russian Revolution - which I think had as much, if not more of an impact as the Greek royal family being on and off the throne during the 1920s and 1930s

Some Americans can have a sense of importance and entitlement that is ingrained and hard to watch. She wanted to be important and was not happy to play second fiddle to Kate. She was singled handed going to transform the monarchy. MM is utterly unprepared for the reality of not being ‘that’ important.

My take is that Harry was a bit in awe of Meghan. Maybe she reminded him of his mother, maybe just her confidence, assertiveness, career success and caring characteristics made him swoon. Also as the spare and with trauma and anger from his mother's death and his hate of the press, maybe her being American and removed from it all was a breath of fresh air. I don't think he clued in that she was a social climber who saw him as an opportunity. I don't think he every considered early on that she would refuse her place and position in the family and buck against protocols traditions and norms. That was all he had ever known. I think she validates his insecurities and his pain and he lets her make the decisions and supports her out of fear of losing her.

With regards to the interview, I think there were nuggets of truth but the framing and telling of the events were not the full story and included either vague comments or very biased tellings of events or in some cases - pieces leaving listeners to make assumptions and jump to conclusions. I don't think any of this will end well or get Meghan what she wants. I don't think Harry really knows anymore what he wants.

The RF stood by and watched Meghan being racially abused by the press
She was clearly, undeniably treated differently and resented due to being black.

I think we all had a lot of good will towards Meghan at first actually. People's opinion/treatment of her changed due to how she acted.

But this is Mumsnet, where all black women are automatically aggressive over-sensitive liars, and where racism doesn't exist (except for the terrible scourge that is anti-white racism) and accusing someone of racism is the worst sin in the world. I swear MN is almost indistinguishable from Stormfront some days.

@rosetylersbiggun LOL! Are we reading the same board? It's mostly full of Guardian readers. I've been suspended for criticizing Meghan before, and I'm probably not alone.

I remember before Kate and William got married it was reported that Kate was given plenty of training and prep for Royal life and it doesn't seem as though Meghan had that for whatever reason yet probably needed it even more than Kate did.

With regards to titles, whilst not the standard for grandchildren to get them, if William and Kate’s children do then they should have been given ah explanation they could understand as to why there was different treatment but I don’t believe it was due to race.

I don’t think it was recognised how unhappy she was and there should have been more support to help her understand why things were a certain way but also help her find ways around restrictions to protect her happiness and well-being. .

I swear MN is almost indistinguishable from Stormfront some days.

LOL.

The press was very racist to MM, and I also suspect the comment about Archie’s skin colour may have come from William. The RF was utterly unprepared to recognize racism from the press and effectively deal with it. And that’s very common. I have experienced racism and discrimination firsthand and had people close to me not react immediately or even recognise it for the evil that it is.The RF is no better than socially in general. I would say they are actually worse because of how sheltered and privileged they are. Wrong but that’s the reality. I sincerely hope this has been a wake up call for them.

Now, has MM experienced racism? Absolutely! Has she been disingenuous and a bit too hungry for the limelight? I think so! Harry needs his family, his country and MM is not helping the situation. She doesn’t get on with her family and now nor does he. How can this be a good situation? They are surely burning bridges all around.

With regards to titles, whilst not the standard for grandchildren to get them, if William and Kate’s children do then they should have been given ah explanation they could understand as to why there was different treatment but I don’t believe it was due to race.

They were given an explanation. Which Harry anyhow would already have been aware of.

Even M in her interview couldn't avoid a vague and dismissive reference to 'some protocol to do with I can't remember what who now maybe, like, George the fifth or something?' and then a sort of amused eye-roll suggesting an actual text of 'omg you see how bizarre and archaic and from the Dark Ages these pathetically restrictive 'rules' are? They could have called my son a Prince, like his cousins, but they refused! And why? Well, you KNOW why ........'

It was beneath contempt, and oiled all the while by Oprah, who I always admired and now sadly can't.

It was a study in deliberate fudging of the actual truth and direct insinuation masquerading as 'revelations' of 'her truth'.

Actual reality:

Harry knew his kids would not be Prince/princess until his father becomes king.

M didn't accept this and wanted Archie to be a Prince anyhow, as it wasn't 'fair'.

Presumably they requested it and were told no sorry we can't change this.

They were offered other titles - this protocol being that he could have a different title until such time as he became Prince (and bearing in mind that we have a very long-serving monarch and when the rule was set, it was most likely presumed that such children would most likely be Prince/Princess straight away as their grandparent rather than great-grandparent would be on the throne).

So it was/is just a question of being a bit patient, and being happy with a different title for now (talk about spoilt ...! Sorry 🤭).

But no: they refused any title for him, explaining this publicly as they just wanted their child to be 'normal'. Thus suggesting they were too modern to perpetuate the whole (outdated) concept of titles.

But Prince would have been fine.? In fact, so much so that M did an Oprah interview about him not getting the title Prince and you would pretty much not be wrong if you were to conclude that she directly said that this refusal to call him Prince was because of her unacceptable genetic heritage.

Which is clearly bollocks.

@MumsGoneToIceland I think she/they were given all those things.

Harry would've known that any son he had wouldn't be called Prince while he's at his current place in the line of succession.

If you watch the Oprah interview, when Meghan claims she wasn't given any training, Harry goes to say something and she pretty much shushes him. (1 minute 3 secs in- I just happened to know it was in this guy's clip )

Harry's had a therapist, so did Charles after his divorce apparently, and Diana when she was with Charles of course. The royals have all sorts of doctors on hand, professionals etc if needed.

If there was a lot of racist press, I wonder why Oprah's team couldn't find them? They doctored quite a few and used some from Australia and the US. ITV now has to pull the doctored ones.

Was her team just really lazy and didn't bother looking? Seems like more work to make them up.

@Kokeshi123

If they ever do split, I think the fall out will be worse. Harry will have told Meghan all sorts of things. She will not hesitate to use this against him.

Oh God, I didn't even think about this, but yes, I can totally see this now.

I could forgive my family for almost anything but I could never forgive them for being racist towards my child. You do realise that being racist is a million times worse than accusing someone of being racist, don't you?

She's allowed the accusation to hang like a storm cloud over the whole family because she won't actually say who the person was or exactly what they said. All family members have therefore wound up being implicated even if they didn't say anything. I would be really really angry if I was one of the people who had never said anyone dodgy but was having my reputation smeared anyway by association.

*Kokeshi123

Archies skin colour -*Why won't you say HARRY should say who it was - the direct conversation was with HARRY and he confirmed this.. I am so fed up with MNs excusing Harry like he is still a little boy- He is a grown man - whether he behaves like one is a different matter. He relayed the conversation to Meghan, he was the one who had the discussion with the royal racist - he said he will never say who it was. Why absolve him of that - it really is pathetic!!

They could have actually called their son Prince. Now that would have been funny 😀.
Perhaps the baby will be Princess, like Katie Price's little girl.

rosetylersbiggun
There's plenty of evidence that the royals are racist. One of William's former army officers came forward recently to say that William was one of the most racist people he'd ever worked with and constantly made racist remarks!

Do you have links please - a quick google search hasn’t shown up anything .

Sorry x post with @ ImAncient

I am wondering if H and M will accept Archie becoming a Prince when Charles becomes King ? If they do it would confirm that the title thing is really at the root of all this .

@Oldbutstillgotit

I am wondering if H and M will accept Archie becoming a Prince when Charles becomes King ? If they do it would confirm that the title thing is really at the root of all this .

Of course they will. They were complaining he didn't have even more titles. If he really found his family as horrible as he said he'd have given up all his bloody titles.

I remember before Kate and William got married it was reported that Kate was given plenty of training and prep for Royal life and it doesn't seem as though Meghan had that for whatever reason yet probably needed it even more than Kate did.

Waitie Katie had years to learn and be absolutely certain about what she was getting into.
Impatient Meg was a year from meeting to engagement and married quickly beyond that. There is a limit in what can be learned in a year especially if someone is to arrogant to listen. I do get it that she was mid 30s clock ticking but more time learning the protocol, family quirks, wouldn't have been a bad thing.
I don't think it was just the clock ticking that made them rush, I think she was desperate to get him up the aisle become Princess Meg.

I'm sure in the time Harry was with his previous GFs they would have been getting prepared for Royal life. Even if they did decide to walk away.

Why won't you say HARRY should say who it was - the direct conversation was with HARRY and he confirmed this.. I am so fed up with MNs excusing Harry like he is still a little boy- He is a grown man - whether he behaves like one is a different matter. He relayed the conversation to Meghan, he was the one who had the discussion with the royal racist - he said he will never say who it was. Why absolve him of that - it really is pathetic!!

@Itreallyistimetochangethings I did not know that. If that's so I don't see why he would've relayed something so upsetting to his wife. He doesn't seem the type to enjoy upsetting people (or so I thought until the recent events and what he's done to his family.)

Are we sure he didn't mention something and Meghan (who wasn't there) extrapolated that it was racist?

Maybe it was like I've heard, that people with mixed families often wonder what the child is going to look like, just as any one does.

'I wonder if the baby will take after you or Meghan?'

He mentioned that line to Meghan and she was like, 'Zomg, Harry, look at them victimizing me with their racism! This whole country's full of fascists! We'll have to leave.'

I suppose none of us can really speculate now as we just don't know the details.

But if people were saying this level of slander about Meghan that she's saying about the royals, the court papers would've been served weeks ago.

@Oldbutstillgotit

I am wondering if H and M will accept Archie becoming a Prince when Charles becomes King ? If they do it would confirm that the title thing is really at the root of all this .

I think Charles / the Queen will do a rule change, especially if they are still NC. Why would the RF want a Prince who has no clue about Royal protocol?

The way things are going it wouldn't surprise me if they strip H&M of their titles.

Awful overnight posts. With absolute nonsense being talked. Meghan walked in front of someone, she announced the baby to the whole of Eugenie's wedding party, she did this she did that.

The walking in front of nonsense... there's loads of footage out there of the DM trying to besmirch MM with stuff like this. You look at it closely and it is just a nothingburger. Slanted to look awful in their campaign to paint her in the worst way possible.

Yet you demand of @rosetylersbiggun evidence of something. Of course you would. That's what you do all the time. I've had this. When I provide evidence of anything I have said, no one replies. You all disappear.

She's transparent
She's self serving
She wanted to be centre stage
She's a narcissist
She's a social climber

Where's your evidence for that then?