Sit tight, she’s on...

[HeathIns]

Oprah is annoying me already.

Cokie - I don’t think so, Edwards children don’t use their royal titles, IIRC the letters patent don’t allow for great grandchildren & so new letters patent were needed for Williams’s children as the inheritance rules had changed.

I think slimming down is a good idea, & it was planned that the Sussexes would be a part of that I’d have thought. Also as far as I could see Charles seemed enchanted by Meghan at their wedding. So where did it go wrong?

@lunarlife

The pool analogy doesn't really work because PC has been going on about a slimmed down monarchy for years before Megan appeared on the scene. It would make sense if it was only mentioned after she arrived.

But I don't think that means that Megan wasn't subjected to some racist micro aggressions and feeling sensitive and vulnerable hasn't assumed genuinely that this decision was a personal and racist one.

Yet it's convenient that he allowed George, Charlotte and Louis a title, and never acted on slimming down the RF....until now. He didn't with George. Nor Charlotte's birth. Nor Louis' birth.

Only now.

I don't understand how people can't see what is right in front of them. Or rather, simply don't want to see it or admit it.

“The pool analogy doesn't really work because PC has been going on about a slimmed down monarchy for years before Megan appeared on the scene.
It would make sense if it was only mentioned after she arrived.”

So you were saying it was talked about for years or has been done for years? If it was talked about for years- it is still racism if they decided “ok let’s actually do it! (And whispers to each other “Because the child might be darker and cause a problem”)

I’m sure lots of people remarked at the time around Archie’s birth that they expected H and M to refuse a title as they were ‘modern’ royals. Iirc lots of posters on MN said so. It’s a burden not a privilege in the 21st century. Not using the titles given to Archie seemed part of that but now I wonder if they were rejected due to anger he wasn’t a prince.

Cokie3 you don't know what colour people on here are.

@VanillaIce

Harry has behaved appallingly, by the standards of any family. I don’t know how his father or brother will ever be able to repair that. Not a single royal will ever trust them again now they know that every private conversation is fuel for chat shows.

My thoughts too. Even zoom chats will be very guarded from now on.

Cokie- did you see the article I linked to from 2012?

Dear God @Cokie3,
As explained by previous posters, Archie will move up the line when the Queen dies and not before. Nothing to do with race, it will be because of his position in line to the throne. It didn't suddenly changed when he was born
It's irrelevant that other people didn't know about courtesying, they weren't dating her grandson, she was
But you crack on love, it obviously fits your agenda

My understanding is that PC has planned what he will do when he is king for a good while now.
I am also pretty sure that I have read articles about royal lists being actively reduced with accompanied grumblings over the years.
With plans for further changes during the next reign.

In addition there are currently a good number of royal children without titles for different reasons so Megan's dc wouldn't be the first.

I actually rather liked Megan when she appeared and was impressed that she chose to take the more modern Princess Anne approach. So I was disappointed to hear that this wasn't the proactive choice it was made out to be.
I think it will actually be a blessing for her dc in the long run though.

@Blueberries0112

“The pool analogy doesn't really work because PC has been going on about a slimmed down monarchy for years before Megan appeared on the scene. It would make sense if it was only mentioned after she arrived.”

So you were saying it was talked about for years or has been done for years? If it was talked about for years- it is still racism if they decided “ok let’s actually do it! (And whispers to each other “Because the child might be darker and cause a problem”)

No, they’ve been working on the slimming down since the 90s, step by step. It all picked up speed after Diana died. The civil list was limited, lots of royal cousins lost their peppercorn rent palace apartments, some of the rules were changed permanently, HMQ started paying income tax. Then there was a huge row over Beatrice and Eugenie’s adult roles and police protection that dragged on and on.

They had a internal royal committee called “The Way Ahead Group” that oversaw all the reforms.

Honestly if you’re a Brit of a certain age, who cares about constitutional issues (we don’t have a written one), you remember this stuff. We don’t expect the rest of the world to know about all this backstory, though.

It’s difficult to find free-to-read newspaper articles online that go back that far but there are some;

archive.macleans.ca/article/1998/3/23/downsizing-royalty

www.irishtimes.com/news/queen-s-reform-plan-may-end-monarch-s-role-as-church-head-1.78218?mode=amp

larouchepub.com/eiw/public/1996/eirv23n42-19961018/eirv23n42-19961018_054-way_ahead_group_scrambles_to_bai.pdf

www.tehrantimes.com/news/8285/British-Royal-Family-Divided-Over-Palace-Reforms

Yet it's convenient that he allowed George, Charlotte and Louis a title, and never acted on slimming down the RF....until now. He didn't with George. Nor Charlotte's birth. Nor Louis' birth.

Only now.

Well yes. Because they are William's children and they are ahead of Harry and Archie in the line.

And it's now because Archie was born after them. It's nothing to do with colour, it's to do with was born when.

@Cokie3 is either M/H or completely unscrewed. They have been screaming falsehoods at people across the threads. Yelling and spitting the dummy does not change the facts, however much you don't like them.

@Cokie3 the Way Ahead Group has been actively whittling down the monarchy for 25 or 30 years whether you believe it or not. So the “Prince” title thing isn’t suspicious. It just isn’t. It was in line with the rules.

Personally I think it would have been good PR - once Harry got engaged to a WoC to change the bloody rules so that H&M’s kids would be prince/sses but nobody did that.

What is more interesting is why Archie didn’t get the “Lord” title.

Most of all though, who was the royal who speculated on the baby’s skin colour? Isn’t that the smoking gun?

Yet it's convenient that he allowed George, Charlotte and Louis a title, and never acted on slimming down the RF....until now. He didn't with George. Nor Charlotte's birth. Nor Louis' birth.

The Queen did, not Charles.

@RickiTarr He could have had that based on the Dumbarton Title, his parents did not choose to use that title for him they wanted Prince specifically. The implication being with HRH and Prince the TP would have to foot the bill, for a Lord, Viscount they would not. They CFers, they can afford their own security, just not if they live like the Clooneys et al. This is all about money and jealousy at not being main players ala Princess Maragret.

It’s the Queen’s decision atm and then ultimately Charles’s decision who gets the titles. People on here are suggesting that both of them are so racist that they would deny one of their grand children a specific title based on a small amount of African ancestry. This is a really cruel thing to suggest. They welcomed Meghan. Meghan’s black mother was welcomed too and the only family of Meghan’s ever aloud in the palace or near the Queen. It’s obvious that royal children of spares without titles end up happier.

[quote ChocolateSantaisthebestkind]**@RickiTarr* He could have had that based on the Dumbarton Title, his parents did not choose to use that title for him they wanted Prince* specifically. The implication being with HRH and Prince the TP would have to foot the bill, for a Lord, Viscount they would not. They CFers, they can afford their own security, just not if they live like the Clooneys et al. This is all about money and jealousy at not being main players ala Princess Maragret.[/quote]
Well that’s one way of interpreting it.

OTOH there is a quite different way of looking at it.

I don’t want to assume. I’m hoping the truth will emerge or at least become clearer.

No there isn't a different way of looking at it. He was not entitled to the Prince title, but was entitled to a Title Last night they said otherwise and tried to turn it into a race issue. It isn't and wasn't. They chose for him not to have a title. Those are the facts.

@ChocolateSantaisthebestkind

No there isn't a different way of looking at it. He was not entitled to the Prince title, but was entitled to a Title Last night they said otherwise and tried to turn it into a race issue. It isn't and wasn't. They chose for him not to have a title. Those are the facts.

Yes I must have typed 15 times today that he wasn’t entitled to the Prince title. Not until Charles is King. I know that.

I’m interested in who made the decision not to let him use the Lord title from birth, )which he was ENTITLED to) and whether that was to do with pressure, pique, progressiveness or prejudice.

I am keeping an open mind. More will come out.

I don’t think the Lord title was directly referenced in the interview. It was all Prince this and prince that.

I don’t know how MM keeps a straight face. Oprah looked incredulous and like she was only there for what they were going to come out with next. Also MM has been very fortunate. Her father won a considerable sum and spent it on her education.

Prince Charles' long-time plans for a slimmed monarchy made the news again in December 2019, two weeks after the Prince Andrew interview in November 2019. PA losing his royal role had sped up his plans. He said he wanted his sons to be part of the 'core' family. H&M left as working royals in January 2020.

@stairway

It’s the Queen’s decision atm and then ultimately Charles’s decision who gets the titles. People on here are suggesting that both of them are so racist that they would deny one of their grand children a specific title based on a small amount of African ancestry. This is a really cruel thing to suggest. They welcomed Meghan. Meghan’s black mother was welcomed too and the only family of Meghan’s ever aloud in the palace or near the Queen. It’s obvious that royal children of spares without titles end up happier.

*This

If I was pregnant and feeling suicidal and told my DH, and he then made me out on a posh frock and go to an event in a concert hall, he wouldn't be my DH for much longer. Especially if he then sat and watched me weeping all evening.

Why didn't Oprah ask Harry why he did this and didn't get help for his wife?

You aren’t a member of the Royal family are you?

@TonyGates

If I was pregnant and feeling suicidal and told my DH, and he then made me out on a posh frock and go to an event in a concert hall, he wouldn't be my DH for much longer. Especially if he then sat and watched me weeping all evening.

Why didn't Oprah ask Harry why he did this and didn't get help for his wife?

I said this on another thread and was told that she decided to go along with him that night. Whatever happened , she should have been offered some help for this.