Thread about Harry and Meghan that has no deletions

[OverUnderSidewaysDown]

Play nicely and don’t say anything that will get your post (or the thread) deleted. I’ll start. Archie is cute and it would be lovely to see him more often.

I think to begin with you need to acknowledge the source of your information about an individual to judge what filters and selective spin have led to your criticism. Much of the coverage on H&M is from the Daily Mail and they have a very obvious (and I believe implicity racist) bias. Many posters on here like to claim they have 'formed their own opinion'. But unless you have had direct dealings with the couple, any opinion is filtered through our media, and in case of H&M that is usually the red tops

The obvious fallacy in this argument though are people like yourself, Navigator, who sees the coverage of what Meghan and Harry are up to, which is, as you state, primarily in the press. You don't (I presume) have direct dealings with the couple, and so in theory you therefore you also don't have any ability to form an opinion about their actions. And yet you clearly have. Could it be that you are able to read the reports about their activities, consider and disregard the loaded language and linguistic tricks used to craft the narrative angle that the paper is looking to disseminate, and look at the underlying facts and assess them? And/or read other publications also with the same critical lens to assess what similarities and differences there are in their differing accounts, and then form your own opinion? If you can do it, why can't others?

I fear society is getting to a point where it's not possible to criticise anyone without fear of being labelled racist, sexist, disablist, ageist, etc

I think we are already there and I fear the inevitable back lash that will eventually ensue.

now you're being silly Navigator.

@TheNavigator

Interesting you don't consider other RF members may have press teams that issue press releases - they just 'quietly get on' with their visits to hospitals and charitys, it is so odd journalists know they are there. Indeed, the queen doesn't even realise her preachy wee message is broadcast to the nation every year - you'd think she would have spotted the camera by now

Did you really just call the queens Christmas Day speech 'preachy'? I'm sorry but I find that extremely off!

@Serenster

I think to begin with you need to acknowledge the source of your information about an individual to judge what filters and selective spin have led to your criticism. Much of the coverage on H&M is from the Daily Mail and they have a very obvious (and I believe implicity racist) bias. Many posters on here like to claim they have 'formed their own opinion'. But unless you have had direct dealings with the couple, any opinion is filtered through our media, and in case of H&M that is usually the red tops

The obvious fallacy in this argument though are people like yourself, Navigator, who sees the coverage of what Meghan and Harry are up to, which is, as you state, primarily in the press. You don't (I presume) have direct dealings with the couple, and so in theory you therefore you also don't have any ability to form an opinion about their actions. And yet you clearly have. Could it be that you are able to read the reports about their activities, consider and disregard the loaded language and linguistic tricks used to craft the narrative angle that the paper is looking to disseminate, and look at the underlying facts and assess them? And/or read other publications also with the same critical lens to assess what similarities and differences there are in their differing accounts, and then form your own opinion? If you can do it, why can't others?

Serenster I don't have a particularly strong opinion about H&M, beyond bemusement that they inspire such forensic interest and ire. I occassionally drop into these threads to goggle that they are still going and may make some comments, but I'm not about to start reading and dissecting all the media reports and books. I just don't care enough and it interests me how much others do.

@jeffgoldblumlovespenguins Off with my head

Indeed! 😂

So what you’re telling us, TheNavigator, is that we will have more knowledge than you about this subject, but you are right and we are wrong? That’s not exactly a position that enhances your credibility, but okay.

@TheNavigator
Many posters on here like to claim they have 'formed their own opinion'. But unless you have had direct dealings with the couple, any opinion is filtered through our media, and in case of H&M that is usually the red tops.

Please, for the love of God, can you just knock it off with this allegation?

I have not formed my views of the couple from reading the "Red Tops".

It's exactly the opposite: I wondered what the hell Harry was on about with the 'intense coverage' and the 'racism' that MM was being subjected to, the negative reporting that was so very much worse than any other royal, ever had received, nearly on par with his dear mother, I had to acknowledge that BECAUSE I DO NOT READ the papers he is talking about, certainly not the comments, there may be a basis for his/their feelings. I am not on Twitter. In my world, this was not a 'thing.' The whole thing looked like nonsense to me and much ado about nothing.

I still disagree they have had an especially hard time relative to others, and certainly considering their own appetite for engaging with the press (sodding 'biography' prepped for publication prior to their second wedding anniversary.)

But - I do acknowledge there could be upsetting coverage that existed that I wasn't aware of.

@theNavigator - in some ways though, that is the point. I don't care that much about Meghan or Harry or indeed the rest of the Royal Family. I think the whole silly institution should be abolished.

What I do find fascinating as I said up-thread are the many and diverse responses to H&M - I am not bemused by that, I am interested in it, not just about why they inspire so much hatred but also why they inspire so much support, and who from. Because of what they represent as well as (or in fact more than) who they are, I think it provides a very interesting insight into many aspects of our society and culture including how different people seem to understand issues of identity and inequality. This is stretching it a bit possibly but I think you could almost think of them as a tabula rasa in this sense as people seem to project their own beliefs on to whatever they do and say, to some extent at least.

Having said that, I can also understand why some people feel more personal animosity towards a couple who for example appear entirely happy to benefit from unearned status and rank while also appearing to suggest it shouldn't or doesn't exist.

@Serenster

So what you’re telling us, TheNavigator, is that we will have more knowledge than you about this subject, but you are right and we are wrong? That’s not exactly a position that enhances your credibility, but okay.

I don't think it is so much a matter of right and wrong as some posters getting angered to an inordinate degree versus me being bemused by the disproportionate anger directed at one fairly harmless couple. It strikes me as odd (and unpleasant) but it is an odd (and occasionally unpleasant) old world.

I think it provides a very interesting insight into many aspects of our society and culture including how different people seem to understand issues of identity and inequality. This is stretching it a bit possibly but I think you could almost think of them as a tabula rasa in this sense as people seem to project their own beliefs on to whatever they do and say, to some extent at least.

Yes, I think there is something to this. But I am not sure it is exclusive to M&H in the context of the RF.

@theNavigator - I totally agree that they as individuals are harmless.

But do you think that what they represent might feel harmful to some people, for all sorts of reasons and in all sorts of ways? This could be very sinister, including where people feel threatened by a successful and assertive Black woman.

For me, I think it is a little worrying and potentially signals harm to our society when meaningless platitudes about equality and human rights stand in for meaningful commentary on social inequalities and are not critiqued. Also, I believe it is problematic to live in a society which ignores obvious contradictions between an individual's status and their pronouncements on issues of hierarchy status. I believe that this is dangerous and it is legitimate and important to comment on it.

Again, though, it is not H&M that I necessarily feel strongly about - it is what they represent and how it is received.

By the way, just to reiterate, I also believe that Royal Family are an anachronism but most say very little about equality (for obvious reasons I would think!) and I only really have one thing to say about them - that it is time the institution is abolished as the ultimate manifestation of inherited privilege.

[quote OVienna]@TheNavigator
Many posters on here like to claim they have 'formed their own opinion'. But unless you have had direct dealings with the couple, any opinion is filtered through our media, and in case of H&M that is usually the red tops.

Please, for the love of God, can you just knock it off with this allegation?

I have not formed my views of the couple from reading the "Red Tops".

It's exactly the opposite: I wondered what the hell Harry was on about with the 'intense coverage' and the 'racism' that MM was being subjected to, the negative reporting that was so very much worse than any other royal, ever had received, nearly on par with his dear mother, I had to acknowledge that BECAUSE I DO NOT READ the papers he is talking about, certainly not the comments, there may be a basis for his/their feelings. I am not on Twitter. In my world, this was not a 'thing.' The whole thing looked like nonsense to me and much ado about nothing.

I still disagree they have had an especially hard time relative to others, and certainly considering their own appetite for engaging with the press (sodding 'biography' prepped for publication prior to their second wedding anniversary.)

But - I do acknowledge there could be upsetting coverage that existed that I wasn't aware of.[/quote]
This! The things that have irked me most have come from HaM’s own mouths or website/press releases. It’s amazing how much they have shot themselves in the foot.

@OVienna, agreed about the rest of the RF. I think that they accept that position though and make sure that it is mostly useful to them. I think H&M don't accept it and obviously work much harder to try and control and drive the narrative, which is of course impossible.

[quote inexcessive]@OVienna, agreed about the rest of the RF. I think that they accept that position though and make sure that it is mostly useful to them. I think H&M don't accept it and obviously work much harder to try and control and drive the narrative, which is of course impossible.[/quote]
I'd love to hear your thoughts on Diana, in this context, and the nation's response to her death.

I have pulled up a chair. Please don't go!

disproportionate anger directed at one fairly harmless couple

I don't know either of them personally, they may be perfectly nice. They however have demonstrated that they are looking to use the public position that one was born into, and the other married into, for personal gain, which to my mind is an abuse of that public position, and they are actively taking steps to prevent any consideration and/or criticism of their actions by a free press. Given the public status they hold, that's not exactly harmless.

It has been confirmed that H and M have signed a deal to make programmes for Netflix. I wish them luck however I trust they will stop using their Royal titles.

I am this very day going to cancel my Netflix subscription.

@Serenster

disproportionate anger directed at one fairly harmless couple

I don't know either of them personally, they may be perfectly nice. They however have demonstrated that they are looking to use the public position that one was born into, and the other married into, for personal gain, which to my mind is an abuse of that public position, and they are actively taking steps to prevent any consideration and/or criticism of their actions by a free press. Given the public status they hold, that's not exactly harmless.

Well said.

Well they have fallen on their feet with the Netflix deal
I really can’t see how they could be qualified to produce the content but hey ho they must feel they are

@Biro20

I am this very day going to cancel my Netflix subscription.

I take it your jokng👸🏻 Surely you just don't watch it.

@Serenster

disproportionate anger directed at one fairly harmless couple

I don't know either of them personally, they may be perfectly nice. They however have demonstrated that they are looking to use the public position that one was born into, and the other married into, for personal gain, which to my mind is an abuse of that public position, and they are actively taking steps to prevent any consideration and/or criticism of their actions by a free press. Given the public status they hold, that's not exactly harmless.

Agreed.

Good for them regarding the Netflix deal. I think they will be very pleasant presenters, both quite relaxed and articulate, also have interests in many things.

I am meant to be writing right now about inequality and inherited privilege (my actual job!) so limited time but with regard to the latest news on Netflix. I recognise that many people will congratulate H&M on progress towards financial independence but there could hardly be a more blatant example of the use of social networks and status over talent and qualifications in securing advantage. I really hope that H&M acknowledge this themselves, drop their ridiculous titles, and at the very least make every effort to employ high numbers of people who are otherwise under-represented in the TV industry in the production of the programmes they make. Perhaps also use some of the cash to fund schemes which improve diversity in the sector. Otherwise it is a classic example of actions completely contradicting their words and in my view deserves to be called out as such.