Harry and Meghan what they’ll do next

[PelicanPie]

Let’s strive to keep on topic and not engage with posts designed to disrupt.

After PC dies (if she outlives him) what would Camilla be called? Presumably not King or Queen mother - whichever would be correct is she was PW's mum. Dowager Queen???

Sorry just to add if she was Princess Consort you'd refer to her as your royal highness and thereafter as ma'am.

I'm assuming that if she is styled as Princess Consort she would be known as "your royal highness" but if she were Queen Camilla she would be "your majesty" ?

Exactly that

Interesting that the statement about Princess Consort has been removed from the Clarence House website DeRig. Prince Albert was Prince Consort because the Govt thought the people of the UK wouldn't want a German King. Is feeling really still strongly negative about Camilla?

Part of the government objection to Victoria's wish for Albert to be "King Consort" was because they wanted to keep him away from politics. He was a worry to them on many levels and they didn't want "King Consort" to morph into anything equal to Victoria.

I think there is still a strong dislike of Camilla, but I think it was always naive to think that the whole Princess Consort thing was anything other than Charles throwing a 'be quiet' message to people who'd object to the marriage. If he was serious about her not being Queen her title and constitutional position would have been settled at the time of the wedding. It wasn't because, imo, he wants her to be crowned next to him as his Queen

Can any of the knowledgable posters on this thread recommend any good books for the dunces like me and @DandyAF

I probably need modern British history for idiots and a book explaining all t he stuff about hierarchy and titles would be great

After PC dies (if she outlives him) what would Camilla be called? Presumably not King or Queen mother - whichever would be correct is she was PW's mum. Dowager Queen???

She'd be the Dowager Queen. She'd likely just be known as HM Queen Camilla though, in the same way Queen Mary was.

Mary could have been known as the Queen Mother (she'd still have been Queen Mother even though her son was monarch as the title means former Queen who is the mother of the monarch so doesn't change), but there was no need as her son's wife was HM Queen Elizabeth. Same with Queen Alexandra not using the Queen Mother title

The Queen mother was only really known by that title to make sure there was no confusion between her and her daughter

After PC dies (if she outlives him) what would Camilla be called? Presumably not King or Queen mother - whichever would be correct is she was PW's mum. Dowager Queen???

She would be (dowager) Queen Camilla, I believe. I think the Queen Mother was only given that name because both she and her daughter were Queen Elizabeth.

If she became Queen and outlived Charles, she would just be Queen Camilla. Kate would be The Queen. Camilla would be Queen Dowager but she would just be referred to as Queen Camilla. The only reason that the QM needed the title Queen Mother is that she and her daughter had the same name. In the family, she was called Queen Elizabeth and her daughter The Queen.

Good question Catlin and nobody knows the answer.

The truth is that it would be up to William how to style her.

In theory if she became Queen she'd loose the title DoC (as would PC) and by that time that title may already belong to George (or will do in the future so giving it back to her could be complex).

The reality there is that there is no precedent for a royal stepmother of the monarch.

Your suggestion of Dowager is probably a good a bet as any, but as I said it will be up to William (though PC may have primed him wrt to his wishes should this eventuality occur - not that William would be obliged to act on them).

Part of the government objection to Victoria's wish for Albert to be "King Consort" was because they wanted to keep him away from politics. He was a worry to them on many levels and they didn't want "King Consort" to morph into anything equal to Victoria.

Surely a King Consort is unprecedented though as even with William and Mary (Mary being the actual heir) they ruled jointly.

Not completely unprecedented. Lord Darnley, the husband of Mary Queen of Scots was King Consort. Philip of Spain, husband of Mary I had the title King (without the consort part).

Surely a King Consort is unprecedented though as even with William and Mary (Mary being the actual heir) they ruled jointly.

It would have been. Victoria wanted Albert to be King Consort rather than Prince Consort. The government objected on the grounds of his meddling, his families religion, and the fear of him becoming a joint monarch, rather than 'just' a Consort

The reality there is that there is no precedent for a royal stepmother of the monarch.

Catherine Parr was known as the Dowager Queen although her stepson, Edward VI, was unmarried and she died before her stepdaughter, Mary I became queen.

Not completely unprecedented. Lord Darnley, the husband of Mary Queen of Scots was King Consort. Philip of Spain, husband of Mary I had the title King (without the consort part).

I forgot about Philip of Spain and Darnley!

Thanks Seneca

I don't see William, should Camilla become Queen, doing anything to change the transition from "HM The Queen" to "HM Queen Camilla"

To do so would be a huge statement about his step-mother

Reaching for the Duchy of Cornwall's goods would be terribly forward of me Dandy , after all, we've only just met and I'm not even sure what to call her let alone make a grab for her step son's goods

Thanks all for clarifying. I realise I've made this thread run off at a tangent from H&M though and I'm sorry.

Personally I have no issue with her being Queen. Unlike PoW it is a title Diana never held so I'm not sure I see the problem. I agree with this DeRig but I'm sure the comments section of the Daily Mail would quickly fill with indignation and the Daily Express as a whole would probably spontaneously combust!

That inherent sexism again Lyra. Prince Albert as King Consort may have been perceived by the public (and presumably by other world leaders and dignitaries) as being senior to Queen Victoria although despite "only" being Prince Consort he managed to upset the government apple cart rather a lot. Is this why Prince Phillip remains a Prince and Duke rather than King Consort?

"Royal Family for Dummies" cat. Perhaps Lyra, DeRig, Seneca et al could put their heads together to produce this and make a fortune selling it to folks like you and I

Sorry just to clarify as I realise I misunderstood didn't properly read the question.

Other PP's are correct.

If King Charles died and Camilla had been know as Queen she would retain that title "Queen Camilla" (in the same way Queen Mary retained her title when her husband died - and at one point there were 3 Queen: Mary, the QM and HMQ). She wouldn't be Queen Mother (as she's not) but as also mentioned the former QM was styled as such because she and HMQ are called Elizabeth.

My comments refer to her title if PC died before he became King and the throne passed from HMQ to William.

She is DoC by marriage not by right and theoretically would be without a title in that instance.

It's problematic to keep calling her the DoC as that title will fall to George and any future wife (as future PoW). Equally you wouldn't want to "make" her a queen if she had never been one.

So ultimately it's William's call but my guess would be some form of Dowager title e.g Dowager Duchess of Cornwall.

I thought William & Mary were offered the crown jointly by parliament. Obviously Mary was the blood relative but William was already a King so wouldn't have been interested in being demoted to a Prince just for the British throne.

I don't think William would remove the Dowager Queen title from Camilla. It would be a huge unnecessary scandal.

If Charles died before being King then Camilla would be HRH The Dowager Duchess of Corwall

Unless a change was made in the style of Princess Marina and Princess Alice which allowed them to be HRH Princess Marina, Duchess of Kent and HRH Princess Alice, Duchess of Gloucester

I'd say that would be very unlikley as Camilla hasn't had a Princess title that she has been known as (if she was known as Princess of Wales she could have easily become HRH Camilla, Princess of Wales for example). Marina was a Princess of Greece before marrying and Alice was simply treated equally to her sister-in-law by the Queen

She is DoC by marriage not by right and theoretically would be without a title in that instance.

That would be interesting constitutionally DeRig

She is technically Princess of Wales though, so could she become Dowager Princess Camilla [of Wales] ? The palace must have thought of this and I'm sure PC will have made his wishes known. Although based on the longevity of his parents PC won't be going anywhere for a very long time!

Oops, crossed with Lyra who, as usual, is correct.

Also if PC died before becoming Queen then William wouldn't become Duke of Cornwall as he's not the Queen's eldest child

So there would be a gap where Camilla would be HRH The Dowager Duchess of Cornwall and George's potential wife becoming HRH The Duchess of Cornwall. It may also be that George's potential wife wouldn't even use it as she wouldn't be avoiding Princess of Wales.

Obviously I meant if PC died before becoming King. I think it's highly unlikely he'll ever be Queen

Is Catherine Parr the only Queen who was a stepmother of the monarch?

IIRC William & Mary are slightly different as he was next in line to the throne in his own right after Mary’s younger sister Anne.

waspie I stand corrected. You are of course correct. My etiquette on reaching for a gentleman’s goods is not as it should be 😳