H & M - The Cat, The Barber and the Argyll Pheasant Pluckers

[TheMustressMhor]

I hope I've got what everyone wants in the title of this, the twelfth thread in the series.

Great link *Curly
*
I saw this photo on that blog. If ever a picture told a thousand words! Meghan looks smug and Harry looks in shock

That link on enmeshment is really interesting CurlyWurlyTwirly very. I believe I've seen it at least a couple of times.

@FlickingVees could I have a copy please

Doria didn't just disappear during Meghan's teenage years though, did she. She was still living her own life. Her wiki mentions working as a travel agent, running her clothes shop, and going back to uni. Meghan chose to live with her dad, and as her dad had just won the lottery in 1990, I get that. He would have been the more fun parent then, with money to spare; most kids would probably make the same choice. He may have lived closer to the action of Hollywood and he mentions that Meghan helped him choose the rental that they ended up living in together.

A bit less sympathetic now I'm up to the "she owes me" "time to look after daddy now".

One Seriously dysfunctional family

I'm glad your DC's have a good surrogate dad @TheMustressMhor!

Sleep tight!

She seemed very precocious as a child. Possibly spoiled by her parents and treated as though she was more mature. Kind of "what Meghan wants..."

Twitter 80,000 Canadians signed petition that Sussexes pay their own security.

How is their position tenable in Canada?
Especially as Meghan was papped with a ( plain clothes) Canadian Mountie as well as her British ppo.

80k out of 36.7 million is not a lot tbf

But then is it 100k have to sign a petition in this country for the gov to debate a matter? And it's hard enough to achieve that so 80k is a lot when you think about it

So many unanswered questions, but the following struck me, every detail of the wedding was meticulously planned, from her £gazillion dress to how she wanted the chapel to smell yet no apparent thought seemed to have been given to her father who would be walking her down the aisle in front of millions.

I would have expected him been visited by them both in the run up to the wedding, talked through all the protocol, what his specific role would be, very importantly what he would be wearing (and fittings arranged). None of this seemed to happen. I think Meghan rightly deduced he wouldn't be up to it and made sure he was ill prepared and therefore would most likely back out. Very calculating if I'm correct.

I think he came across well.

Maybe the ‘time to look after Daddy’ comment isn’t financial but more a comment about self care and time to heal?

You make a good point myimaginarycat. Yes, everything planned to the nth degree, but no one thought to give dad a bit of a heads up? hmm.

My thoughts are:

I believe him.
He is respectful about everyone.
He never criticised his first wife or Doria.
He was right that Doria should never have been sat by herself at the wedding, something that never previously crossed my mind. Very thoughtful of him to have considered that.
He said he didn't relate to Samantha's view of Meghan but, nevertheless, didn't criticise Samantha. He referred to Samantha as being known as Babe.

All the pictures and videos. He was an involved father.
I liked that he spent time fishing with Meghan and horse-riding was mentioned by her.
He became involved with her school and did the lighting and scenery.
He guided her as to what to say when she was filming herself for (presumably) family.

He is hurt, understandably so - by Meghan, by Harry, by his treatment by paparazzi.
He is offended at being portrayed as a fat slob and an alcoholic (I think he doesn't really drink).

He didn't mention why Meghan wanted to come and live with him but didn't infer anything awful about Meghan's relationship with her mum.

He was honest about lying to Meghan and Harry about the photos.
I don't like lying but think Thomas was good to H&M by lying in an interview about how he'd told H&M to enjoy their wedding and honeymoon. If he had told the truth at that time, before the wedding, things would have looked bad on Harry.

Money
He admitted how much he got and still receives from the paparazzi photos (30%) when he was being set up.

I believe him when he says it wasn't about the money. I think wanting to set the record straight at the time was the primary consideration, with money being a welcome by-product.

They didn't address the money he received for this interview but I saw something on TV today where we were told Thomas receives less than 10% of the budget for the film and that the budget was £150k. So, he got less than £15k for the 6 days he spent being interviewed in October plus the interview since the split.

He probably does need money as healthcare is expensive and it cost something like $196.5k for the one and a half days he was in hospital when he had the heart surgery. He's possibly concerned that he may need more treatment in future.

When Megan said she'd given him $20k over a one year period, when you think of that in terms of what she received in salary from suits it was only about 5% of it. It is like me giving a parent £2k from a salary of £40k. Not a mega sum.

I think he has been treated badly by a lot of people. He admits he is no saint but I don't think he deserves the venom he has received in the press.

I was just saying on the other TM thread, that Doria gave up her mental health counselling job after the engagement and must have had to as "clients" could be journalists trying to get a story on PH etc. I do wonder if Meghan/RF finances her now as Doria can't just work anymore without being hassled and papped. Also, Doria got the official wedding invite that TM didn't. I think Doria was very much planned in advance, TM not.

I am not sure what to make of that interview. I was expecting to be disgusted by him, but found him engaging and likeable. I understood why he behaved as he did . I think it’s utterly appalling g that M and H didn’t go and visit him personally before the wedding. Harry had met Doria several times before they got engaged. There can only be one conclusion.. M was ashamed of her father and feared Harry might change his mind if they met. Harry himself should have insisted on meeting his future father in law. It’s basic decency.
Also to expect a man who was in poor health and living in seclusion to face that wedding in front of millions with no understanding of what would be expected was ludicrous. He was expected to fly in, meet the RF and take part in that wedding all within a few days.
He clearly did have a heart attack. No concern was shown ,no flowers sent. Awful.
The air brushing out of the help and support he did give her to make herself seem better is an indication of her own self regard.
On the other hand, he clearly has brought up two very dysfunctional children other than her who he doesn’t get on well with. He has had two failed marriages. His relationship with Meghan sounded unhealthy and he sounded overly dependent on her emotionally.
I did notice that sometimes when she spoke in the home videos she sounded disassociated. Like she was performing even when with her father.
I’m sure a psychotherapist would have a lot to say about all the dysfunction in that family.
There was a strange jarring when he was talking about the money Meghan had given him. Some other part of him took over there and it made me wonder if there is another side to him which we were only catching a glimpse of. Likewise when he talked about the baby looking like him in a gleeful (they’ll get their comeuppance you know) sort of way.
Likewise the tone in his voice talking about what he is owed. It was quite unsettling.
It made me think of a close family member who appears lovely and sweet most of the time. However they have another side which comes out from time to time which I would describe as quite evil. It’s triggered by certain things which i would see as an unprocessed shadow side. Most of the family won’t believe this, but it’s scary when you witness it.
He seemed very respectful in talking about both ex wives, and still loving when he talked about Meghan before her marriage.
It’s incredibly sad. There is absolutely no chance they will reconcile now and I doubt very much she will be there to see him buried.
So much of her childhood and young womanhood was bound up in their unhealthily close relationship. She must now feel she has reinvented herself.
I wonder what was said in the rest of the letter. He obviously doesn’t want the contents made public so they must be pretty damning.
I found the casual way he talked about M acting as a prostitution and stripper in her first roles very strange. Why would ‘most actresses’ have to do that? No they wouldn’t.

Cue a reunion with her dad on Oprah just before the MoS case reaches court.

After the interview I'm slightly more sympathetic towards Thomas Markle Sr as I believe he was dropped in at the deep end with no support.
Meghan knows her father & should have a fair idea of how he handles things.
She could've turned to the Royal Family right at the start and said 'look, the US parental situation could become a bit of a loose cannon' then the RF should've sent advisors over to get involved with him, help deal with the paps etc and a lot of the bad press could've been easily avoided including this interview.
They've might've even been able to handle Samantha & Thomas Jr but I suspect their hatred of Meghan as the 'golden' child would never dilute their bile.
One thing I never understood is why Meghan couldn't rustle up family from her mother's side for the wedding even if she wanted to avoid her father's side.
I mean on Harry's side there were the Duke and Duchess of Kent - they're the Queen's cousins so a bit distant from Harry - as well as his closer relatives.
Were there no distant family or friends from long ago, or even a + one, that could've been dug up instead of Doria there on her own. Or was it a more poignant look for her to be there alone?

an unprocessed shadow side and the bit about being scary when you witness it.

sunsetboulevard I've never heard this phrase before but I think a close family member has it - struck an absolute chord with me. please could you point me somewhere I could find out more? thank you.

I think she's spun Harry a line about her DDad. Harry believed her, hence the family she never had comment. Then the daft choices TM made with the photos seemed to reinforce her narrative. I wonder, now that Doria is allegedly so close to Harry, if she's ever pulled him up on that comment.

@Justmuddlingalong
I had a different take on the "owing Daddy" bit. He was talking about recieving payment for photos, interviews and the documentary and I took it as him saying that the RF, PW and MM all owed him, not money, but for what he felt he'd been put though, and was now thinking fuck it, I'm not shutting up and yes I will be paid for my views.
I totally agree (except I think you mean PH, not PW ). I think we have to understand that just because Americans speak English, the words may be the same but they don't necessarily hold the same meaning as they do for us British. There are cultural differences. His meaning may be lost on the RF though but I'm sure Meghan understands what he means.

I agree with @SunsetBoulevard3.

I mostly found his narrative believable, with a couple of grey areas.

The money question was interesting. He clearly resented,Meghan pointing out she'd given him 20,000 dollars over a one or two year period. He wasn't expecting her to keep count.

However much she was earning, that's a substantial amount of money, and it seemed to have been provided as a result of numerous requests from him. He didn't attempt to explain where his money troubles originated, or why he needed to go to her repeatedly for help.

She might justifiably have been concerned that the demands would increase.

He seemed to equate her funding him with his support of her, but he was the parent. The dynamic of their relationship, even at its best, troubled me.

@NotEverythingIsBlackandWhite yeah. Sorry, I obviously meant PH. It's late and I'm about to slip into a self induced chocolate biscuit coma. 🤮

*yolo www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.goodtherapy.org/blog/shadow-work-emotional-suffering/amp/

I did a very quick google and this is one of the things that come up.

Basically, we all have a shadow side which represents the parts of us which we repress or can’t acknowledge, or aren’t even aware of. We may be ashamed , frightened or unable to acknowledge difficult emotions or responses so we push them down and pretend they aren’t there. The result is a sort of volcano over time, with stuff bubbling away under the surface. As people get older the bubbling gets worse quite often until the molten lava bursts through the surface at times. Fits of rage, spiteful behaviour, nasty comments. Subversive behaviour designed to get the persons needs met in ways they can’t ask for directly.
In the case of my relative, there is a lot of suppressed rage and feelings of hurt and abandonment which they can’t speak about rationally or openly. So it comes out on spiteful nasty comments etc. Or a desire to punish others in various ways. I don’t even think this person is conscious of what they are doing much of the time so if I were to try to challenge it, the person would be outraged.

Hope this makes sense!

I found the casual way he talked about M acting as a prostitution and stripper in her first roles very strange. Why would ‘most actresses’ have to do that? No they wouldn’t.
We are talking about Hollywood here, a scruffy area of LA, where most actors and actresses are out of work and usually end up waiting on tables. Most of them don't make it into acting. Hollywood is a Mecca for wannabees. Do you really not believe that up and coming actresses take roles where they act as prostitutes and strippers to try and break into acting? Even with the whole of the #Me too movement?

You can't think of it in terms of our culture. Hollywood has a culture of its own. People will do absolutely anything to be noticed and then hopefully use it as a stepping stone to get cast in decent roles. This is how the casting couch has come about - by people desperate to be famous.

He isn't saying she was a prostitute or stripper but that those were the parts she played (although I have seen an article which said she stated she was the latter on a c.v. at some point).