To find the royal family fascinating part 3

[BishopBrennansArse]

Don’t use it yet just putting it here ready for when part 2 runs out....

William of Orange and Victoria's predecessor were Kings of both/the UK. William of Orange was offered the Scottish crown alongside Mary in a separate deal from England. The present queen is actually Elizabeth Queen of Scots and Queen Elizabeth of the UK

Actually William of Orange was not King of the UK. He died before the first Acts of Union in 1707 that created Great Britain and the second in 1800 that created the UK. Queen Anne was the first monarch of the UK.

Technically the titles King/Queen of England and King/Queen of Scots don't exist anymore.

I don't think periods of history are nominally defined by the presiding monarch any more. It's quite interesting, but it just stopped after the Edwardian period. Then we went on to the Great War period, post-World War I era/lead-up to World War II era, and then the Cold War era and so on. We're not going to be the New Elizabethans in the history books, and there won't be any Philippians.

Sorry, I meant to say Queen Anne was first monarch of GB.

George III was the first monarch of the UK.

I don't think periods of history are nominally defined by the presiding monarch any more

Well, I guess that's something; now if we could just get rid of them altogether ...

And while I could be proved wrong, I'd have said the chances of Charles using the name Philip as king are vanishingly small. After all they don't exactly seem to have much empathy going on

I reckon the royal baby was born yesterday or at least that’s when labour started. I think it’s possible MM may have had an elective c-section hence the date is known.
Still think it’s a girl.

Seneca check what I said. I was referring to both Williams and said "of both/the UK"; clearly the first was referring to William of Orange.

The current Queen was welcomed to the first opening of the Parliament as "Elizabeth Queen of Scots". The royal family use their Scottish crown titles north of the Border. Prince Charles uses the title Duke of Rothesay which is the title of the heir to the Scottish Crown. Elizabeth also went through a ceremony in St Giles with the Honours of Scotland, which are much older than the English Crown jewels.

In constitutional law, there is an argument that the Crown of Scotland can descend in a different manner to that of England, the legalities being based on Robert I with the Declaration of Arbroath, and on William of Orange and Mary II with the Claim of Right Act 1689 (The Declaration of the Estates of the Kingdom of Scotland containing the Claim of Right and the offer of the Croune to the King and Queen of England). The Act of Union united the Parliaments, not the Crowns. James IV and I was the first to speak of a United Crown of Great Britain and call himself that.

The current order of precedence in Scotland for women is The Queen; Camilla, Duchess of Rothesay; Sophie, Countess of Forfar; Anne, Princess Royal; Catherine, Countess of Strathearn; Meghan, Countess of Dumbarton; Autumn Phillips; Princess Beatrice of York; Princess Eugenie of York; Lady Louise Mountbatten-Windsor; Zara Tindall. All supposing that royal blood husbands are present. Funny that heirs' titles change in relation to a crown that supposedly doesn't exist. The royal arms also changes.

Going back to Edward VIIs sex life, my greatgrandfather who was a policeman(!) in one of the colonies, was given the task of finding “female company” for Edward when he visited.

It’s so bloody patriarchal and sexist, the way the husband’s birth order overrides that of a royal-born female.

This is an objection I have to MM - how disappointing that someone who was an “out” feminist and speaking eloquently on female issues and doing humanitarian work around gender parity should choose to marry into the RF.

Hence the UK and the Union of Parliaments can be dissolved by the will of the people in Parliament and it will not affect the crown as it is constitutionally separate. In the event of Scottish independence, Elizabeth would remain Queen of Scots, as she remains Queen of Canada, Australia and New Zealand, and has her separate constitutional place in each.

In Scotland, the sovereignty resides with the people of Scotland, as laid out in the Declaration of Arbroath, the Claim of Right Act 1689, the Claim of Right 1989, and the following unopposed acceptance of the following motion in Westminster in 2018.
“That this House endorses the principles of the Claim of Right for Scotland, agreed by the Scottish Constitutional Convention in 1989 and by the Scottish Parliament in 2012, and therefore acknowledges the sovereign right of the Scottish people to determine the form of government best suited to their needs.”

An I the only one tickled that H&M were given the Dumbarton title? Isn't that a bit like being Earl of Luton?

Dumbarton is the ancient capital of the Kings of Strathclyde, the last Brythonic-speaking Cumbric (similar to Old Welsh, Breton Cornish) kingdom in the north, before the takeover by Gaelic and later Scots. Dumbarton Rock was sacked by the Dublin Vikings in 870, after which the capital moved to Govan where the royal tombs can still be seen. The southern part became part of the Anglo-Saxon kingdom of Northumbria in around 1050. The rest became part of the kingdom of Scotland somewhere between 1018 and 1054.

What's the history of Luton?

RubberTree I was more amused that the Queen apparently gave a gift of a brood mare when Charles "married" Camilla

Given that's exactly what his first wife was, I couldn't help wondering if the irony was deliberate

I think important to the Anglo-Saxons and then a similar descent into mediocrity.

There are probably even better examples.

RubberTree I was more amused that the Queen apparently gave a gift of a brood mare when Charles "married" Camilla

I thought the Scotland/ England regnal number was decided as it would always be the higher number, so a King James would be counted up from the VI of Scotland, rather than from the I of England. There was an interesting programme about the Scottish Parliament ( yes really) on Radio 4 today. they said the in England, the Queen in the Queen of England, as we are her subjects, but she is Queen of Scots, as traditionally in Scotland, the monarch served the people, so she is the Queen of the Scots rather the The Queen of Scotland. I just thought that was interesting...I was unable to take 2 days off work to read this thread, so this all may have already been talked about!

Dumbarton is still very important historically to Scotland as are Stirling and Dunfermline. Stirling, Edinburgh and Dumbarton Rocks are the three great castle rocks spanning the central belt.

the Queen apparently gave a gift of a brood mare when Charles "married" Camilla

...or it could have been a joke about Camilla being a post-menopausal bride!

I think the days of Prince Bertie reigning as King George have gone.

We see too much of them now and they are too recognisable to change names on taking the throne I think.

Hence the choice of William as a name for a future King being kinda controversial in certain parts of the UK when it was announced!

Agree lyra it would be ludicrous for Charles to change his royal name upon taking the throne.

Harry has cancelled his Amsterdam trip

I think that the solution of the highest regnal number being used was suggested by Churchill, but I don't think it has been formally adopted. I think it is probably in the royal prerogative to decide which number is used where.

Harry has cancelled his Amsterdam trip

Cancelled??!! According to a pop up I just received it's been shortened to a day trip ... ?

Ah no, sorry - ignore me. It seems Amsterdam is where he was supposed to go on the second day and now won't

Apparently he's still going to The Hague for the day for the opening of the Invictus games. Either the baby's here or will have to be born by then as M is so overdue. I don't think any father would plan a trip abroad when their wife is due any day.