Crate training a puppy - so much conflicting advice

[VanGoSunflowers]

I have an 8 week old Lab puppy. He is honestly such a sweetheart. I have only had him a couple of days so it’s still very early. He’s getting toilet training already etc

The first night, the breeder told me to just put him in his crate at bedtime and go to bed and ignore him. I put him in and he got very distressed - not just a bit of whining but full on barking and howling. As he is still only a baby, I did take him out and slept with him on the sofa (I was in the room trying to sleep on the sofa anyway)

All I keep hearing is one side that says, he is just a baby, you need to build up gradually until he settles etc and the other side saying that I’m creating bad habits of letting him out when he is barking so now he knows how to ensure I let him out.

I personally think it’s too much to expect an 8 week old pup to sleep in a closed crate all night and wanted to build up to that gradually by getting him in and out during the day, rewarding the process etc and eventually he will get that is where he is supposed to relax and be calm. When doing this during the day, I lead him in with a treat, praise him for going in there, close the door and sit by him and then try and wait for at least ten seconds of calm and then praise him and let him out. Shall I keep
on doing this or do I now have a dog that will only settle if he sleeps with me?

The ‘let them cry it out advice’ I feel only works if it’s minor whining and not for too long but this was more than that when I took him out - he was clearly distressed! Plus, I have neighbours and need to get some sleep myself!

Thinking of for his next nap, wait until he is really tired and lure him in to his crate but then keep the door open and sort of ‘fuss’ him to sleep. Let him sleep there but with the door open maybe?

I’m a huge advocate of crate training but it takes months and has to be done slowly. We used a crate overnight with our pup. I used to cuddle her to sleep then put her in and then let her out as she was waking up. That was beside our bed. She got into the habit of trotting in, sleeping then waking up. We used it for a few months then stopped shutting the door. She still sleeps in it with the door open.

Day time crate training I did separately and it took months. I needed to train as she’s a competition dog so needed to be happy in one in the car.

For the average pet owner they’re not really worth the effort. Yes it’s not good to let them cry. No part of proper crate training advocates that. You slowly build value in the crate so they want to be there.

Thank you for your reply, so I just need to be slow and steady with it.

I think it’s being ‘shut in’ that’s the problem, rather than being separated from me. If he naps on the sofa and I’m pottering around, I often won’t notice he has woken up as he doesn’t cry. I walk in and he’s just sat there being calm. I think I will try your suggestion of cuddling him to sleep but for daytime naps only to start with, putting him in there and leaving the door open. In the meantime, at night, I don’t really know where else he can sleep other than with me on the sofa? I don’t want him to sleep in my bed with me… not least because it’s quite high up and I would worry about him hurting himself to try and get down. I guess my only other option would be a pen with a dog bed in it but I don’t really have the space and if he hates being ‘locked in’ I can’t see how that would illicit a different response

We didn’t use a crate in the day - just dog proofed our main rooms. Pup was always with one of us. We’ve now got a dog who has NEVER chewed as she’s never got into the habit of it 😉

Ours slept in her crate right beside the bed. Is that an option? I used to sit on the floor with her until she was really sleepy then she’d put herself to bed once she’d got into the habit.

It really is worth investing in these early weeks and months to build that bond of security. It doesn’t last long. They soon stop needing you there.

We had a similar issue with being shut in at night, we used an old plastic playpen to create a safe area for nighttime, with the crate inside to sleep in, door open. We slept downstairs with pup for the first 10 days, settling her when she cried or taking her out for a wee! Once she seemed to be sleeping through we moved back upstairs to bed, leaving her downstairs in the playpen.
She’s now 8 months old and sleeps at the bottom of the stairs on her squishy bed, no crate or playpen!
We do still use the crate if we’ve got nervous visitors and we do take it away with us, she slept in it all week with the door shut on a caravan holiday recently.
We’ve always tried to make the crate a safe place for her, where good things happen (treats, licky mats, kong full of cheese!) and we never forcibly put her in or took her out of it. Slow and steady is the way forward with crate training IMO

Get yourself on to Facebook - dog training advice and support. They have loads of resources. Esp for things like crate training and leaving.

Not being goady, but I never understand why people feel the need to shut their dogs in a crate. Ours have a basket in the kitchen. It’s still their safe place, cosy, but no need to shut them in a small space. Looks nicer in the kitchen too. And they travel fine in the car.

My dog is currently at a veterinary hospital recovering from major surgery. He is in a crate by necessity.

If he wasn’t comfortable in a crate and being contained, his current circumstances would be infinitely more stressful and his recovery would be hampered by added worry about his surroundings
Doesn’t mean he uses one all the time at home but crate training is an absolute ESSENTIAL in my opinion

Just don't put your puppy/dog in a tiny enclosed cage at home. Ever.

The fact that people buy a dog cage for inside their home and have come up with reasons why periodically locking your dog in that tiny cage is a good thing just blows my mind.

Trying to dilute the action by calling them 'crates' and making these cages more aesthetically pleasing for the home doesn't change what they are. It's a cage.

Some people will buy into any old crap though I suppose.

I’ve had dogs for over 30 years from puppy hood. I see absolutely no reason to use a crate / cage and none of mine have had accidents. Each puppy is brought to my bed at eight weeks but my recent two haven’t wanted to stay long and chose their dog beds on the floor of my bedroom after a few weeks. They all have the run of the sitting room ( mostly dog proofed) and when young I have a smaller utility room a baby can be safely be left away from older dogs if I need to go out. I do shut off bedrooms in the day as likely to go stealing toys and socks. I’ve never got up at night with a dog either. All of mine travel well in the car ( although youngest pup sometimes car sick) and strapped in with seatbelts. Mine are terriers

I mean if it doesn’t work out I will abandon the crate idea. It’s largely for his safety as much as anything else although downstairs has been puppy proofed

Interesting as the breeder recommended using a crate, as did nearly everyone I know who has a dog. I think there are pros and cons and some dogs like enclosed spaces as it feels like a den.

I just want him and me to both get as much sleep as is practicably possible whilst making sure he is safe.

I don’t want him to sleep in bed with me at this age as it’s quite high up and I would worry about him falling out

Do you mean cage? Let's call a spade a spade at least.
No, it's cruel and unnecessary.

I think it's a good skill for a pup to have - been happy in a crate. Our dog had a crate and a run at night. Run dismantled after a few months and crate door left open. Crate removed after about 12 months. But he's not a chewer. But he still likes be in an enclosed space when relaxing so can often be found under things. If he's not sat on sofa.

I’ve recently had a pup, she’s 11 weeks.
The breeder used a pen, that’s all they knew- so we got a pen.
She loves her pen, so did my Lab when he was a baby. It’s their safe place, where they sleep and rest, where they get peanut butter licky mats, kongs with frozen peas- or a card box filled with some peas or treats to find.
Our puppy is allowed on the sofa, if we lift her in and off as she isn’t to jump yet. But she never really sleeps /rests properly unless we sit there too.
If we didn’t have a pen she would pee and chew things? How is anyone managing that if you don’t use a crate/pen? I work from home, but I couldn’t manage without the pen. She’s comes out regularly, for play, training and the toilet. Puppies are meant to sleep for 18 hrs maybe more a day.

Mine cried for a few nights, I slept on the floor by the crate (extreme joy🥴). Now she just has a last potty break at 9/10pm and sleeps until 7am. She has access to some kibble and water 24/7.

I won’t use the pen forever but I don’t know how I’d manage it if I didn’t use one now. I would let him cry for a bit OP 5 -10 mins perhaps, if he doesn’t settle sleep next to him. Do you leave him in there during the day? Do you have a routine? Always make the crate somewhere something good happens and ensure it’s big enough for the puppy to move around and stand up fully.

A work colleague never used a crate, her lab pup stole her tights from the radiator in her bedroom and choked to death. If you cannot provide a safe room and don’t mind everything being chewed and the puppy peeing and pooping all over the place potentially… You can’t watch a puppy 24/7.

Mine has had two stays at the vets. Both required caging all day. They commented how relaxed she was in the crate. That’s because she’s trained. It’s a game changer for those times but it does take a while to train properly. I’m happy to invest that time as it’s important to me but for the average owner just confining into an area is good enough. They don’t stay pups for long.

At shows I need her to stay in the car with the boot up if it’s warm. Usually while I sit with her. That requires careful confinement training.

Puppies shouldn’t be climbing stairs or jumping either- letting them is cruel and will have lifetime consequences.
My Lab had a leg op at age 7- he could never do steps/ stairs again (by this I mean regularly and daily). He had to stay downstairs to sleep, alone. He was absolutely fine!

Ah yes. The 'the dog LOVES it, it feels like a den' reason people give.

Fine. Throw a blanket over the top and it IS a convenient looking 'den' type place I suppose.

So do that. Put blankets in the cage, cover it over so it's den like. And of course snap the hinged door off the cage. before use. I mean, if dogs love it so much because they feel secure or whatnot, they'll sleep there. Zero need to lock them in if it's their natural, inbuilt preference.

Surprisingly though, you rarely hear of people snapping the doors off their cages before using with their puppy. They of course claim to leave the door open after the puppy is trained several months down the line - but only after the dog has been thoroughly trained and conditioned to sleep in the cage.

With that much effort involved it makes you wonder just how 'natural' this cage-dwelling desire is in dogs.

How is anyone managing that if you don’t use a crate/pen?

A cage and a pen are two very different things.

A pen ime is usually large with space to play and run. And it's usually used for puppies and packed away after a few months. Totally different to a cage you use for the dogs whole life, where they can stand and turn and that's pretty much it.

I crated my dog for the first few months when I was out, or overnight.

But she genuinely liked it. She got fed all her meals in there and would trot in of her own volition when it got dark, or the hoover came out, or just because she fancied a nap. We had a rule that nobody ever touched or bothered her when in the crate, so it was very much her own space - valuable to a sensitive breed (collie cross) in a busy household. She never once cried when in there, right from day one she just accepted it as her safe place and often chose to be there. I would never ever have shut a crying puppy in a crate though, if she hadn't accepted it so readily we would have done something different.

We kept it longer than it was really needed for because I couldn't be arsed fighting to fold it up and get it into the loft, but from about 6m the door was tied permanently open with a cable tie and she still chose to hang out in there! Even now, 4 years on, she chooses to go and sit where it used to be when I'm hoovering 😂 Apparently the sacred spot has some sort of anti-hoover force field.

I've crate "trained" all of my dogs and it hasn't harmed them.
Those that scold others for doing so are so unkind, just because not crating WORKED for you , well done but doesn't mean it isn't right for OTHERS.

Dogs need to be introduced to all situations from a very young age for things like a PP suggested above i.e surgery.

My dog needs double patela surgery on his hind knees and he's a spaniel - so it is absolutely necessary he is used to a crate from a puppy. He doesn't use it now but he is used to.

You need to start slow - feed pup his meals in there and positive reinforcement based training.

Her breeder had a crate too - the puppies were never actually shut in it because the door was always open, and it was kept covered with a blanket like a little cave. She used to put treats and toys in there for the puppies to find. So DDog was used to the idea of crates being great places, and of trotting into a crate for a bit of peace and quiet, before she even came to us.

We’ve had ten dogs and never crated any of them. Any that have had to stay at the vets have been fine, no problems in the cages there (luckily not many have had to be). We tend to adopt dogs and haven’t had a pup for years, but we’ve always put their bed in a run when we first had a pup, same for the non house trained Romanian dog. It’s always worked fine. We do have a crate for emergencies, but it’s only been used for keeping a cat contained post surgery for a week and for bringing our outdoor bunnies into our porch for a few days when the temperature has gone below-8.

Thanks for the advice from all.
Even those against using crates - it’s valuable but there is no need to be so snippy about it!

Im sat with him now, and he is freely wandering in to it and getting lots of praise when he does so but I’m not shutting the door. I think for now, I will try get him used to sleeping in there but keep the door firmly open. I may get a pen as well but we will see how we get on!

I didn’t think I was being snippy

He has had all his meals in there so far, and I have given him treats in there. I’ve not locked him in there during the day so far for longer than a few minutes and I was sat right by him - once he was calm for ten seconds I would praise, treat and let him out.

It’s interesting because his breeder is all for them. She advocated me just ignoring him and going to bed and she’s trained police dogs and guide dogs 🤷‍♀️ obviously lots of different schools of thought!