Crate training a puppy - so much conflicting advice

[VanGoSunflowers]

I have an 8 week old Lab puppy. He is honestly such a sweetheart. I have only had him a couple of days so it’s still very early. He’s getting toilet training already etc

The first night, the breeder told me to just put him in his crate at bedtime and go to bed and ignore him. I put him in and he got very distressed - not just a bit of whining but full on barking and howling. As he is still only a baby, I did take him out and slept with him on the sofa (I was in the room trying to sleep on the sofa anyway)

All I keep hearing is one side that says, he is just a baby, you need to build up gradually until he settles etc and the other side saying that I’m creating bad habits of letting him out when he is barking so now he knows how to ensure I let him out.

I personally think it’s too much to expect an 8 week old pup to sleep in a closed crate all night and wanted to build up to that gradually by getting him in and out during the day, rewarding the process etc and eventually he will get that is where he is supposed to relax and be calm. When doing this during the day, I lead him in with a treat, praise him for going in there, close the door and sit by him and then try and wait for at least ten seconds of calm and then praise him and let him out. Shall I keep
on doing this or do I now have a dog that will only settle if he sleeps with me?

The ‘let them cry it out advice’ I feel only works if it’s minor whining and not for too long but this was more than that when I took him out - he was clearly distressed! Plus, I have neighbours and need to get some sleep myself!

Thinking of for his next nap, wait until he is really tired and lure him in to his crate but then keep the door open and sort of ‘fuss’ him to sleep. Let him sleep there but with the door open maybe?

Sounds as if it works well for you @Houndmumma

We have 2 young dogs. One is a pup and the other a year older. Never used crates, they’re just not for us. Our ground floor kitchen and sitting room area is all open plan and they happily have this space at night.

It did for us, but breed types and home situations are all variables. Bassets are generally very laid back, can be incredibly stubborn and not very trainable but they are all I’ve ever had. I grew up with them too. Other breeds I know can be very different indeed.

Our lab loves her crate. We were first time owners so I read a lot and on crates particularly found the advice in Easy Peasy Puppy Squeezy very helpful.
it is their safe place so you really don’t want to be shutting them in and having them cry.
At 8 weeks old they are just a baby.

For recall training (not what you’re asking!) we used Pippa Mattinson Total Recall approach and have found being in the FB Group Dog Training Advice and Support very helpful.

Good luck. Our lab is 4 now and she’s a wonderful addition to our family

Thank you so much for asking!
The pen is arriving today. He had quite a full on day yesterday for a pup so decided not to try the crate again last night and we slept on the sofa together. So we both got a good nights’ sleep and feel rested to try again this eve! I will leave his crate door open. He’s been sleeping on an old towel on the sofa so I will put that in the crate, attach the pen and see how we get on. Another night on the sofa for me 😂
Luckily he’s going all night without needed to go to the toilet too!

That’s exactly what I did. Luckily we have a sofa in the kitchen and each time they got up from the crate during the night, I gently encouraged them back in and to stay. Takes a bit of convincing initially! 😆 I’ve also had rescue hounds to stay. But it’s important to make the crate a positive place and not the naughty step. I’ve put a blanket over the top before and my female loved that, she was originally a rescue. Then once they start getting use to it and sleeping, I started sneaking back to my own bed for some much needed rest. Good luck!

We have Pyreneans, so I can identify on the stubborn and not trainable. Likewise, I've been around this breed since I was a kid. Obviously when you have 3 giant breed dogs, as we used to, it makes more sense for them to be free range from the start. For us, it has been no problem, we get them in a good, settled routine early on. My husband works from home and is often in meetings, but the dogs have always just snoozed quietly, they are very calm around the house, never disruptive.

I do get the argument for letting them have the run of the house - this is what he will be doing 90% of the time. I wanted a crate (but hopefully the pen I have ordered will work better) so he has somewhere safe when I can’t watch him. I live alone (apart from half the week when my 7yo DS is here) and have already had a friend over twice in the few days I have had him so she can watch him while I have a shower. And eventually, when he is old enough, somewhere safe to be while I pop out. He will be coming absolutely everywhere with me initially.
My preference would be that doesn’t sleep with me every night too. I will work towards this gradually but if it doesn’t happen, I can compromise on this

Yes luckily with ours the crate was only ever needed with the closed door when they were little, or occasionally when they were older when we had visiting kids or workman etc. The dogs liked helping workman, usually by sitting on their feet or sniffing in their work bags constantly, so weren’t very helpful!! The reason we kept it up was also because ours liked it so much and we luckily had room. They would often choose to sleep in their crate rather than their other beds.

Good luck @VanGoSunflowers I'm sure you'll find what works best for you and your family and puppy of course. They are very good at teaching us what they need, and forcing us to compromise 😉

The pens are very useful - we used ours as a room divider, so our elderly cat could have some peace from the puppy.

Oh yes, all ours have been interfering busybodies around visitors too, hence us having 5 dog gates downstairs!
None of ours have wanted a bed - we have tried but they never used them. They're very rugged and heavy coated so they like to move around a lot. Current girl pup has several different sleep locations - another reason why crating wouldn't have worked for us.

@CoubousAndTourmalet I’m enjoying the calm before the storm as our first new arrival is due very soon. Will be a shock to the system as it was like a doggy nursing home here for the last couple of years. Sadly our cat has not been keen on the adult foster dogs coming in with no cat experience although generally Bassets are usually quite benign towards cats, so we’re back to puppies. We had to wait for a while for a suitable reputable breeder with all the hereditary health checks and also needed time to process the loss of my last two, but the house has felt so empty without the dogs. Also feels so strange walking without a dog too.

Yet again, I can identify; we were three years without a dog until last years pup came along. We lost our previous dog quite suddenly and just didn't feel ready. We also had a houseful of geriatric cats - only the youngest cat now remains and she is 13. We had too many losses in a short space of time really.

I know that, like our own breed, Basset Hounds are no longer as numerous as they were. In some ways that is a good thing; neither is really a breed for everyone, but yes, it does mean a longer wait for the right dog. We're just about to start looking around for another puppy also.

Good luck with your new arrival(s). I've never met a Basset pup but I imagine them to be irresistibly squishy and gorgeous!

I'm on my own as well - for the first few weeks he came everywhere with me, and I had the world's fastest showers with the cubicle doors open and him trying to come in to rescue me 😄 - for the first couple of days he even sat on my lap in a sling when I used the loo (though that did not last long, I can tell you). Because he slept with me, I never had to worry about his safety out of my sight - he was always with me. But like others upthread, I puppy-proofed one room (at first just a big puppy pen in the wooden-floored dining room) and his space gradually got bigger and bigger. First I pushed the pen back to the walls/bookshelves/table, then gave him free access to the kitchen, then the rest of the house. He decided his favourite room was the least puppy-proofed, the study, where I had grand plans to have one dog-free room - my sitter calls it his study to this day 🙄

A year on, I still keep my shoes on shelves and my socks in plastic crates, and accept that a lot more things have chew marks than I expected, but he's never been bored or unhappy or (crucially) alone long enough to really damage things like walls or floorboards. Honestly, if you start off thinking about puppy-proofing the house first, rather than using a crate to save the house from the puppy, you may find like me that you just don't use your crate at all.

"Just don't put your puppy/dog in a tiny enclosed cage at home. Ever."

Not even if your dog has just had major surgery for IVDD and the vet has instructed that he MUST be crated for a month, only allowed out of harness to go into the garden for the toilet and for his 3 times a day physiotherapy? Not even then?

That's very different and I think you know it.

But healthy dogs don't need to be caged every day and all night.

Ah that sounds great 👍 good luck with the pen… hopefully it does the job and you can eventually return to your own bed. I remember feeling as though I had a human baby the first few weeks haha!!

Well, the pen is up and the first issue I have is that it looks like he can climb out of it (he didn’t because I was there to stop him) 🤦‍♀️

More perseverance on my part it seems! It’s definitely like having a baby! Only you can put a nappy on a baby 😂

I’m currently lying on the (hardwood) living room floor, right next to a closed crate with a very calm and sleepy puppy.

I spent some time today reinforcing him going in with his favourite treats. He’s been awake for 3 hours so he is exhausted and he is lying on a t-shirt I’ve been wearing for a few days. I daren’t move for a while yet 😂

Amazing. Sounds like he’s happy, secure and comfortable 🐶

Sorry if these updates are annoying I’m just feeling happy this morning and wanted to share it

So he slept in his crate all night! I dragged the sofa cushions down and slept right next to his crate - which is actually more comfortable than sleeping on the sofa! I naturally kept waking up to check on him (does feel like having a baby!) he didn’t whimper once ALL night, not a peep. But a few times I woke up and he was sitting there looking at me - as soon as I gave him my hand to sniff he was straight back to sleep! No accidents in the crate either! There is progress! Going to take it slowly now so we don’t rush ahead and do the same this evening and eventually will move further away to sleep and hopefully soon I can go to bed 😂

Yay!

What a palaver!
OP you sound really kind and a bit anxious too (perfectly understandable if this your first puppy).
Just do the best you can and don't follow all these online guides on YouTube.
The only good advice I can give you is that you must watch that puppy all the time and correct any attempt at chewing / biting straightaway by distracting the puppy. Let her do what she wants but watch/listen and intervene if needed. If it's too quiet and you're in a different room, 99% chances there's some chewing going on some random piece of furniture or someone's homework.

You simply have to accept the puppy has to take all your time. It's only for a short period of time for the risky phase to pass and you'd have invested in an easy future. Just be on it! Same for everyone in the house.
Of course some things will be chewed because you can't watch them all the time. That doesn't matter, it's a risk of having a puppy wondering around the house. You can fix all this damages in a few months time. You absolutely must block all access to anything electrical or gaps where the puppy might get stuck like behind a piece of furniture when you are not there. Every single time you notice the puppy doing something dangerous you must distract them and, as they learn the meaning of no, you correct the behaviour.

Have plenty of toys to chew lying around, maybe rotate them for the novelty factor.
Honestly labs are one of the easiest breeds to train from very young. Don't make life unnecessarily complicated for yourself. The dog will fit in with your lifestyle before you know it.
I can't advise on crate usage as I'm on the free range / let dogs be dogs and trust each other camp which works for me, but I do know lots of dog owners and their dogs have had positive experiences.

Like most things I think it entirely depends on the dog in front of you. Some will need it and some won't.

I got rid of my cage as soon as she was holding her bladder over night. For me that's what it taught her. I gradually left her with more and more of the home overnight and when I was out. She's not destructive though. Some dogs will need it, doesn't mean they're bad dogs! They're just different. They're dogs.

She goes in a specifically designed car cage/crate to be safe in the car, which also serves as a reminder for her of how to be in a crate!

The toilet training is our main reason for not crating. We would not leave a pup shut in with its own waste.
One of our boys was dry through the night by 10 weeks and the others weren't far behind that, so I'm not convinced that crating helps with toilet training in any way.

Thanks for this!
Im totally with you on the chewing. All electrical wires downstairs have been hidden and I’ve plugged the gaps by the sofa. I’ve just been watching his little phases throughout the day - not long after waking and when he has the zoomies, he’s at his most destructive - but it doesn’t last long before he calms down and I use that time to play tug/throw a ball so he doesn’t chew anything he isn’t supposed to. Once he has calmed down a little and can concentrate, that’s the time I use to do a small amount of training (teaching him to sit or working on recall in the garden) or take him out for a little walk around the block (in my arms of course) or a short car ride - and when he’s even calmer and almost sleepy, that’s when I’ve been rewarding him going in to his crate. Finally, it’s nap time and, although at the moment he is still napping on the sofa, that’s when I can get a few things done around the house.
Then he wakes up, straight out for a wee, rinse and repeat 😂

I do actually think I’ve landed on my feet with him, though. Despite some of the issues we’ve had so far - I do think it could be much worse! We’ve had no ‘accidents’ in the house since the morning after his first night here so that’s 3 days - and he’s already got his preferred spot in the garden!