Crate training a puppy - so much conflicting advice

[VanGoSunflowers]

I have an 8 week old Lab puppy. He is honestly such a sweetheart. I have only had him a couple of days so it’s still very early. He’s getting toilet training already etc

The first night, the breeder told me to just put him in his crate at bedtime and go to bed and ignore him. I put him in and he got very distressed - not just a bit of whining but full on barking and howling. As he is still only a baby, I did take him out and slept with him on the sofa (I was in the room trying to sleep on the sofa anyway)

All I keep hearing is one side that says, he is just a baby, you need to build up gradually until he settles etc and the other side saying that I’m creating bad habits of letting him out when he is barking so now he knows how to ensure I let him out.

I personally think it’s too much to expect an 8 week old pup to sleep in a closed crate all night and wanted to build up to that gradually by getting him in and out during the day, rewarding the process etc and eventually he will get that is where he is supposed to relax and be calm. When doing this during the day, I lead him in with a treat, praise him for going in there, close the door and sit by him and then try and wait for at least ten seconds of calm and then praise him and let him out. Shall I keep
on doing this or do I now have a dog that will only settle if he sleeps with me?

The ‘let them cry it out advice’ I feel only works if it’s minor whining and not for too long but this was more than that when I took him out - he was clearly distressed! Plus, I have neighbours and need to get some sleep myself!

Thinking of for his next nap, wait until he is really tired and lure him in to his crate but then keep the door open and sort of ‘fuss’ him to sleep. Let him sleep there but with the door open maybe?

Mine is crate trained - slept on the sofa for the first few nights & talked to him if / when he woke up. Tell him it’s sleepy time & he pops himself in now. There are a couple of day beds around so he has a choice

Not all dogs do take to it though, just go with gentle persistence- like others have said there are times (post surgery/ travel /vets) when he absolutely will have to so don’t make it a battle ground

I.had a rescue who was supposed to have been "crate trained" she wasn't howled the house down poor dog was utterly miserable,

Poor thing. It’s a difficult one. Especially when you get told to just ‘ignore them crying’ but there is a gulf of difference between a bit of fussing and whining and actual distress. Ask anyone who has ever parented a toddler 😂

Anyway, I have calmed down a lot thanks to this thread. Each day as it comes and enjoy the very short but whirlwind puppy stage 🥰

I'm sorry that your dog is in hospital and I hope it makes a good recovery.

However, what you say about crates is total nonsense.
None of our 9 dogs were ever crated as puppies. All were reared free range. Yet four of them had hospital stays later in life where they had to be crated. No issues. They were fine. Two were also crated for travel on a ferry. Again, no issues, despite never being crated as puppies.

I'm very happy to see that so many people here are strongly against crating.

Totally agree. I do not crate train my dogs. I offer a covered crate as an option on first arrival but in my experience of more than 40 dogs, none of them ever choose it as an option.
I have had one with a serious medical issue that had to be crated. She’s adapted absolutely no problem. We adopted her at around 7 but I can guarantee she’s never before been crated. She’s taken to it absolutely fine. All food and treats are given in her crate and she goes in, happy as Larry. Due to the nature of her surgery, she will have to sleep in her crate for life.
I still would not crate the rest of my dogs, they simply don’t need or more importantly, want it. And even without crate training, they travel well in crates in our specially adapted “dog bus” for 3+ hours at a time with no issue. But they definitely prefer free range at home. So that’s what they have.

So how would you make sure a puppy is kept safe if you can’t have eyes on them 24/7?

How did you get on last night OP? 🤞

How was last night, @VanGoSunflowers?

We tried to crate our now ten-month-old Golden Retriever puppy and gave up on the first night. From then on she’s slept free range in the lounge and is currently on her back twisted like a pretzel and snoring her head off on the sofa! We have never regretted not persisting and the more I looked into it afterwards the more I feel crating is one of those US fads that’s become popular over here but isn’t necessary because UK owners don’t advocate locking dogs in crates all day while they go to work like they do in US. But that’s just my opinion and I know others think crating is great.

To ensure our Goldie was safe we puppy-proofed the lounge, removing and hiding anything she might chew and using an anti-chew spray on some skirting she took a nibble at. Then we put a baby gate across door so she can’t escape at night and it also helped us enforce naps in daytime. Also handy to stop her pelting to front door when doorbell goes!

Ultimately you have to do what feels right and what works for your pup and your household though.

It's not hard. A lot of people do it and always have; crating in the house is a very recent thing.

You use dog gates to restrict them to a safe space. Puppy proof one room, kitchen is generally easiest, or a large utility. All it really means is ensuring they can't access any cables and that there aren't things lying around for them to chew on. Our current girl (14 months old) had the freedom of two rooms - kitchen and a tiled extension/dining area, from 8 weeks old. She has been calm and quiet around the house, no whining. In the winter she chose to sleep in the kitchen, now it's summer, she sleeps on the cooler tiled floor. Same was true of our previous dogs.

With gates on, you can leave doors open, so you should hear the pup if it squeaks to go out. When they are allowed freedom to roam it is healthier for their muscles and their brains. This is particularly important for large or giant breeds. All our pups toilet trained very quickly, we had very few disturbed nights and when they aren't crated they learn adult behaviour quite early.

And no, our house is not wrecked, nor is it a dump. Honestly, allowing them freedom from the start is lovely.

Edited to add that I am totally in agreement with the post above re crating.

Agree 100% with @CoubousAndTourmalet (as I so often do)!

Pretty shocked a breeder would advocate for a puppy to be left crying. Certainly, try the crate but if the puppy makes it clear they are unhappy…don’t force it on them. I’d be taking any other advice from that breeder with a fairly large pinch of salt (enough to fill the pacific should do) after that particular piece of advice!

Totally agree with @CoubousAndTourmalet re free range, below.

It depends on your set up and your approach I think too but I'm also a keen advocate of letting them grow up around your stuff and not sanitising absolutely everything, as long as they're not in danger and you're not going to get upset if they borrow a Croc, or whatever. We only briefly lifted the rug in our snug, for example, so that our pup didn't have an accident on it and then make it hard to clean, not because she might chew it. I lifted the phone charger that's plugged in next to the kitchen table so it didn't dangle down but I left the wooden handled pans on the pan rack near her bed because that's where they live and she had to grow up understanding that not everything was hers.

I’m not sure it’s possible to properly “puppy proof” any room. I’ve known Labs chew the plaster off the walls or strip lengths of wallpaper. Personally I’d rather mine were safely in a large crate with a chew toy, while I went to the shops.

I've done 9 giant breed puppies free range and had no issues like that. As pp says, they grow up understanding that not everything is theirs. We've had cats strip wallpaper, but the dogs haven't caused any damage at all.

Of course you can. Like any other aspect of dog rearing it requires training and persistence. Telling them no when they venture near a potential chew spot and giving positive reinforcement with treats after they move away.

I also recommend a homemade anti-chew spray of 3 parts apple wine vinegar, one part water and a sprinkle of chilli flakes. We only had to use it on a tiny area of table ours had nibbled at and she never went near it again.

How can you tell them no when you’re asleep?

My Lab gnawed concrete. My staffy chews the house. It is impossible to watch them 24/7 if you have a prolific chewer😂

Our late two were crate trained. Our breeder said buy a huge crate to begin with and as a puppy, the bed was one end of the crate, and a puppy pad the other. Dogs will rarely mess in their own beds if they can help it and ours did just use the pad end if they needed to go. Ours took to it almost immediately although I eased them in by staying in the same room to begin with, then gradually sneaking off as they settled. Throughout their whole life we had our huge crate in the kitchen, with the door pinned back and comfy bedding and for our female dog in particular, it was her favourite space. She even tried to climb into my sister’s dogs crate when we visited and they were small dogs with a very small crate. She was 34kg!

Crate training for us, meant if we needed to pop out quickly, they were safe and wouldn’t chew wires etc. Also through the years if we had young children or workman in, they were safe. (More dogs safe from visiting kids than the other way round sometimes). However once past puppyhood it mostly became their favourite den and bed for the next 14 years with the door pinned back. We’re now ready to welcome new hounds to our family this year and will be doing the same.

For the first two weeks we took turns sleeping in the lounge with her. That's when we taught her no.

But yes, get your point – ours isn't a prolific chewer so I guess it was easy!

@SuperTrooper14 Ahh I see, DH would sleep right through 🤣any chewing lol
DM’s dogs were easy too with regards to chewing.

Ah, so to coin a well-used MN phrase, you had a DH problem! 😂

@Houndmumma
How do you manage to live with a huge crate in the kitchen? I don't understand how it's possible. What sort of "huge" are we talking about?

Thats the thing, I’m mostly dealing with it single handedly too, so it’s finding what works best in your household. My DH is a long haul commercial pilot so definitely needs his sleep before flights and away half the week. Guessing other people are in similar situations with their jobs too. He is very supportive when not at work but having a fixed routine 7 days a week for the puppy helps settle them I found.

We’re lucky, we have a very large kitchen/diner here but in the previous house it was in the corner of the living room (again a large room). Ours was big, seem to remember 54 inches, but I had two large Basset Hounds. They use to get in it together when adults for a cuddle. Still got it and will be getting it out again for the new arrivals when they come.

Hey OP!

Another first time dog owner here and agree the information can be conflicting and overwhelming. Just like when having DC one person will advocate for one way of doing things and another will advocate for another.

We have a small breed dog, and got a medium crate for him coming home. His bed takes up 50% of the crate and he curls up happily in his bed. Just for size/ratio info. Since we brought him home we have put him in his crate at bedtime and closed the door, he has been fine with this in general, so have been fortunate in that regard. He’s had the odd unsettled night where we’ve got up with him, let him out to see if he need the bathroom, give cuddles, pop back in crate. And if he hasn’t settled down, we have laid beside him setting up a wee bed on the floor.

We only ever close the door at night when it’s bedtime and we are home, he will go into his crate when we go out and leave him, but we leave the door open and that’s where he chooses to go and sleep.

My daughter would have slept in my arms every night and not be put to bed in her cot where she was save and could not come to any harm if I had let her. I view this the same way.

Things may change as he grows but for the moment this works for us. I was told my a family member that he will hate the crate and it’s cruel to force him into it, I had no intention of doing so but it appears to be quite a divisive topic. Something I was not aware of before getting dog as another family member has had 6 dogs the same breed as ours and crated them all at night so I assumed this was fairly “normal”.

Do what works for you and your family OP, there is no right or wrong, just what works best so you are all happy, healthy & rested.

@Kateboosh I agree, lots of different advice and it’s finding what works for you and your family situation. I think most advice is really just options that other people have found works for them and can be tried. As you say, like children everyone has a different experience.