Crate training a puppy - so much conflicting advice

[VanGoSunflowers]

I have an 8 week old Lab puppy. He is honestly such a sweetheart. I have only had him a couple of days so it’s still very early. He’s getting toilet training already etc

The first night, the breeder told me to just put him in his crate at bedtime and go to bed and ignore him. I put him in and he got very distressed - not just a bit of whining but full on barking and howling. As he is still only a baby, I did take him out and slept with him on the sofa (I was in the room trying to sleep on the sofa anyway)

All I keep hearing is one side that says, he is just a baby, you need to build up gradually until he settles etc and the other side saying that I’m creating bad habits of letting him out when he is barking so now he knows how to ensure I let him out.

I personally think it’s too much to expect an 8 week old pup to sleep in a closed crate all night and wanted to build up to that gradually by getting him in and out during the day, rewarding the process etc and eventually he will get that is where he is supposed to relax and be calm. When doing this during the day, I lead him in with a treat, praise him for going in there, close the door and sit by him and then try and wait for at least ten seconds of calm and then praise him and let him out. Shall I keep
on doing this or do I now have a dog that will only settle if he sleeps with me?

The ‘let them cry it out advice’ I feel only works if it’s minor whining and not for too long but this was more than that when I took him out - he was clearly distressed! Plus, I have neighbours and need to get some sleep myself!

Thinking of for his next nap, wait until he is really tired and lure him in to his crate but then keep the door open and sort of ‘fuss’ him to sleep. Let him sleep there but with the door open maybe?

Again, I do think it depends on the dog. Mine absolutely won’t go in his crate and he can hold it all night already. I don’t think he would hold it that long if he had free run of the house. He’s quite big for a lab puppy - nice big paws so maybe it’s just because his bladder is a bit larger 😂

I always understood they don't like to soil in their bed.

So it's a way of very gradually increasing the clean time - you're training the bladder rather than the dog tbh!

As usual there will be people who abuse it though and do huge increases from three hours straight to six hours etc

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 totally agree (as a solo person, too!)

I’ve never been a huge fan of a crate, I appreciate others do and they work well for their family and dog.
my last dog I got a puppy pen and put that in the kitchen. It had room for a bed, his food, water after, he could wander around in there too. He went in there to eat and sleep, and during the day if we had to go out, where he had a kong or lick mat. But it was never our intention to crate train in terms of him sleeping shut in. I can’t imagine leaving a dog for a few hours whilst at work with only a crate to sit in. This is not a criticism of those that do.

At 8 weeks everything he has ever known has changed. He has always had his litter mates to lie with for warmth and comfort. It’s going to take a while for him to know what’s what and to settle. I used to put my dog to bed in his pen and stay with him until he fell to sleep. If he gave a little murmur in the night I’d ignore, but didn’t ignore the proper ‘I’m awake’ whining and I’d go back down to him, I’d let him out and settle him again. It was not play time or fuss time, just making sure he was ok. Then I’d leave again. As he got older he slept through the night and didn’t need to go out or crave comfort. He then started to have the run of the kitchen, he thankfully - unlike my previous dogs - wasn’t a chewer.
If you definitely want the option of a crate then you have to stick with the training (I recommend easy peezy puppy squeezy book for puppy training), you just have to work out what’s going to suit you as he gets older

The breeder sounds quite old school on her ‘ignore him’ because that’s what we used to do, but not so much now.

ps/ I think we definitely need puppy pics! 😊

I think this is the thing. I can understand why some people are dead against crates because people do absolutely abuse them. I have no intention of keeping him locked in his crate for extended periods of time (other than over night)
Luckily, I work from home!

I think it’s a training aid for me and although I know there’s lots of other ways to do these things, I think it will help us. At the moment, I’m rewarding him when he goes in (and I say ‘bed’ at the same time)
Then I close the door, sit right by the crate with him and reward him for sitting calmly in there for 30
seconds. I do this a few times and then let him back out again. Eventually, over a long period of time, I will reward him for being in there for longer and longer periods and try leaving the room etc.

Here are some pics for you! The one where he is awake, the breeder sent to me (the one with the yellow collar)

Adorable 🥰

It’ll all come together soon, you’re both learning about each other and still establishing your routine. I also found chewing etc got much better after teething. We sent so many visitors home without one of their insoles before that. My late boy was obsessed with them. Think it was because he was a scent hound and obviously they smell. Could remove them in a blink of an eye! He didn’t even rip them up, he just gummed them and covered them with drool!

It’s always a bit of a baptism by fire, but it generally passes fairly quickly (in comparison to human children anyway). Sounds like you’re doing a fantastic job, puppy sounds like a star and it’s nice to hear the updates.

I think that's exactly the reason free range works so well; instead of seeing the small area of the crate as their bed/space/territory, the see the entire room as their bed/sleeping space, so they don't want to foul it. Hence they toilet train very quickly.

Gorgeous pup @VanGoSunflowers 😍

Oh my he is so handsome ❤️
you must be so excited to be able to take him out for walks 🐾

I honestly can’t wait!

Daily pupdate - last night went the same as the night before, angel boy slept in his crate all night and I slept on the floor next to him. I might try moving a bit further away tonight!
In other news, I think I got the worlds’ best puppy. Still no accidents in the house, he has been absolutely fine in the car, have done the school run with him, loves visitors and people!
The door was open yesterday and he took himself outside for a wee. He’s not even 9 weeks old yet! It may have been a fluke of course so I’m not going to rest easy and claim we have cracked it 😂

Sounds brilliant @VanGoSunflowers

Some of us are just lucky and get an easy going pup. Of course there will still be many challenges along the way, but it sounds as if you've got a goodun!

Sounds like you are smashing it ⭐️
no accidents… that is amazing!!
How did you get on with the pen? Did he figure out how to jump over it! 🙈😆
The trickiest thing I found with my pup was teaching her recall, when she hit her “teens” she was terrible… she didn’t care about the treats and preferred to just leg it haha!! I tried everything, sausages, cheese etc. I did see one lady use the Squeezy Primula cheese which she kept in her pocket as a treat which I though was clever, she’d just squirt a little out which the dog licked and was mess free… unfortunately this wasn’t a trick that worked for my dog!

The pen was a none starter - haha! I didn’t use it again after it looked like he could have climbed out. The point of the pen was to keep him safe but if he’s going to try and jump out of it then it’s a bit pointless 😂 he’s big, even for a lab puppy!

So I have puppy proofed downstairs as much as I can, removed the shoe laces from my old garden trainers 😂 and try and tire him out during the zoomies with tug or ball to try keep him out of mischief. It’s tough trying to stop him trying to eat literally everything! Keeps trying to eat stones 🤦‍♀️

My eventual hope is that when he is comfortable enough sleeping on his own more, that he will have at least some of his naps in the crate! They sleep
so much when they’re puppies don’t they? It’d be much easier if he would sleep soundly in there so I can get on with stuff and not have to worry about him. My cleaner is coming today (very good friend of mine) and I have asked her to pup sit instead of clean so I can have a proper shower and wash my hair 😂

Good point on the recall, have been trying to work on that while he has wandered off from me but if there’s something more interesting then he doesn’t bother 😂

What kind of dog do you have? Sorry if I have missed it!

I don’t know if any of you saw my previous thread but I was going to get a German Shepherd originally and was talked out of it by other posters (first time dog owner!) and I’m so, so glad I ended up with a lab instead. I think his breed and temperament is more than half the battle! I obviously have no base for comparison but I do think it could be so much more challenging than it has been so far!

No, I didn't see that thread! People on MN do have very strong feelings about the larger breeds so it doesn't surprise me. It's understandable in many ways that you were guided towards another choice. It sounds as if this boy was made for you, really, so hopefully you've got it right first time.

I have to say though, if internet (and MN) had been around in the late 1970's I'd probably be sitting here with a different dog. Or no dog at all. My family chose a Livestock Guarding Breed (Pyrenean) as their very first dog 😱 I know. Bonkers! I can see now that it could have all gone horribly wrong, but somehow we muddled through, and, 48 years later, I'm now looking for my 9th pup of the same breed.

Some things are just meant to be, and I hope that one way or another you've found your perfect dog, just as I did x

Oh my dog chews stones also! So we have a Cocker Spaniel, but have previously had Springers… they are working breeds so need soooo much stimulation.
Yes they do sleep loads when puppies! I wonder if you could transfer him into his crate if he falls asleep out of it? I put blankets over the top to make it feel safe & cocooned. My dog loves her crate, it’s where she goes for down time in the day… I have children, so it was important she had somewhere that was her own space 🐶

@VanGoSunflowers The stone-chewing phase is usually pretty short-lived, as is the slug/snail-eating phase – don't worry about it too much. It sounds counter-intuitive but best (in my experience) not to chase them or make it a big deal if they pick up stones/snails/slugs as they then think it's a game and then will do anything not to give them up. Best observed – so you can check he's safe – but then gently ignored as usually they will just get the message that it's boring and that it won't get a reaction from you.

Same with stealing shoes or whatever. I used to get SO cross when my girl stole the washing peg bag as a tiny pup. I would chase her around the garden trying to get it. Totally the wrong approach. I realised within a week or so that she was just trying to get a rise out of me and as soon as I stopped caring, she stopped picking it up – likewise pegs. Now I get her to bring me dropped pegs, which is ideal.

Gundogs have an instinctual need to have things in their mouth all the time so I always reward 'gifts', whatever they are.

Ummmm, not so sure @brushingboots , ours still eats gravel and picks up snails now, at 14 months 😬Drives me mad!

@CoubousAndTourmalet Ha, oh nooo! I didn't know Brie was a snail chomper. Perhaps we were lucky. Had the same thing initially with bark in the borders too but that fell out of favour by about 15 weeks too.

Oh yes, she plays with snails like a cat playing with a mouse, until I swoop in and fling them over the hedge. She still munches on chip bark too, birch twigs, leaf mould, chunks of sod, basically any old garden crap will do Brie quite nicely 😬She sucks on pebbles as if they're a gobstopper. I have no idea how she has survived puppyhood really. Anyway, she is far from being the beautiful, refined, ladylike creature that you imagine, appearances can be very deceptive. She's a mucky bugger most of the time. 😆

And calling it a ‘crate’ is so disingenuous.
It’s a cage.

Just a babyyyy!

I’m unsure of how vigilant I need to be with him eating stuff in the garden! My friends were over the other evening and were trying to take every blade of grass out of his mouth 😂 I think that might be over the top. But I worry about him choking if he accidentally gets a stone in his mouth that’s big?!!