Breeder turned us down

[Sellingseashells]

Spoken to a breeder last night about pups due later this year. Was recommended by a friend.i though it was going well but breeder said no. Said he don’t sell to people with children. DC are 10 and 4. Dog savvy.

i know the breeder doesn’t have to sell to us, but I’m really upset. Is it worth trying again? What do I do?

He’s not wrong. They’re a working breed with high demands for both physical and mental stimulation. Most families who won’t actually ‘work’ the dog won’t meet their needs. Not even close. That’s when boredom and frustration and neuroses in the dog can creep in, and that’s when bites occur. I wouldn’t sell a dog to a family who’ve never had a dog before and have children.

You do realise that a gsd is a totally different breed of dog and one that’s not as known for resource guarding as spaniels? 🤷‍♀️

I'm on week 3 with a new lab puppy and two young children (7 and 5). The breeder was happy for the pups to go to families with children as she has young kids of her own who had handled the pups from birth. That said, my 5 year old already has a love-hate relationship with the puppy who is very mouthy and even my 7 year old finds her a bit much sometimes. We have had labs before so the children know how to act around dogs, but puppies are FULL ON. It's a phase and we were prepared for it, but I do respect your breeder's decision.

This breeder is a gem, and is exactly what we need in the spaniel world! I know you say you had spaniels growing up but it isn’t the same and they are not for the faint hearted or generally, the busy parent with small children.

Rescues are currently absolutely flooded with spaniels - males around 2-3 years in particular. Rather than find a less responsible breeder, I’d take heed of this and look for a more suitable family dog. You may hear so many lovely stories about them (from me included) but I still would not advocate this breed in a family home.

Many breeders and rehoming organisations will not consider families with children under 7 - or in fact younger than 11. They sound very responsible. From experience, I would suggest waiting until your youngest is older.

Personally I wouldn't go for a cocker.
Because of their size their mouth is quite near a child's face.
The breeder is correct saying that cockers come into rescues to be rehomed a lot due to biting children. An NHS survey said that the child's age most common for bites is 4
You need to visit a vet for a candid conversation about Canine Rage Syndrome which is prevalent in cockers especially those with self-coloured coats.

See here - https://www.hra.nhs.uk/planning-and-improving-research/application-summaries/research-summaries/study-of-children-bitten-by-dogs/

Sounds like a responsible breeder. I would recommend reconsidering this breed if it's your first family dog as spaniels are a lot of work. They require a lot of exercise and stimulation and super bouncy.

With only that very tiny snapshot of your friends' dogs as a guide, I might suggest that they've not been taught to chill. Two hours is plenty if it's high quality exercise. My girl is genuinely fine with 90 minutes a day and some garden pottering if all of those 90 minutes are good minutes. That means finding things, controlled hunting, flushing birds, stopping when asked when flushing birds, heelwork, whistle drills etc etc. We can do all of that in an hour's walk in the morning before I start work and she's flat out until mid-afternoon.

I know loads of working spaniels who don't go out on walks at all, and many for days in a row, frequently. They still sleep all day because they've been taught to. It's a myth that working dogs need hours and hours a day – what they need is good quality exercise and breed-specific training that works their brains. Of course they will go and go all day if you let them, but I know which tires my dog out more, 20 minutes of work or an hour running about after a ball with her head in the air.

My cocker is amazing with my children. He come from gun dog rescue, fully trained because had been a game keepers. Don’t discount rescues. I would not have a puppy round my children biting and messing in the house but my 6 year old cocker is perfection. I got him when my son was 7.

Our first dog to live with our children was/is a setter x, he is awesome! He’s creeping towards old age now but if you overlook the counter surfing, bin raiding and slight selective hearing when flushing through the undergrowth, he has been pretty much prefect. Great family dogs

Definitely a good breeder. We have 2 Aussies and the breeders were very particular about whether we were suitable.

Yes unreasonable to ring again. He said no

So the breeder changes his mind and the poor dog bites your child. Good call on you and the poor puppy is blamed not you.

My uncle in law had a cocker spaniel, it was a lovely dog except it started to bite him, and resource guard. He did loads of training from the beginning with it and they had a HUGE garden and I mean huge, but it made a real mess of one of his hands.
Sadly his wife died when the dog was still quite young (under 12 months) and he couldn't cope with the dog anymore. I advised him to contact the breeder and fortunately they took it back from him and it lived happily as part of their pack.
It was his first dog.
I have a whippet - he was a little intimidated by the cocker indoors, outside he just used to outrun it!

Find out where the breed club meets. Owners and breeders love nothing more than talk about the breed.
Also, responsible breeders don't mate dogs with problems such as resource guarding.
Well bred dogs are far less likely to go for rehoming as they are without bad traits. That also makes them easier to rehome as well.
Last time I looked on Dogs Trust, every Cocker for adoption had a behavioral problem, that's why they're stuck there.

The sort of dogs that are on free sites, tend to be "backyard breeders." Often just want a pup from their own as it's a nice dog. They've got a mate with the same breed and selling the other puppies covers costs.
It could work or not, but they are not breeders as referred to by @CoubousAndTourmalet breeders who live dogs.
Cockers online is also a font of knowledge.

I agree. I have a four year old and a dog. My four year old is amazing with dogs. I also wouldn’t sell to people with small children.

He’s right.
That said; we’ve had two cockers both rescues - both problematic behaviour. The one we have currently we have adopted from rescue and have a three year old. You have to be extremely careful with any dog and any rescue whatever breed- I can see why breeder would be reluctant for children. Imagine if the dog did end up in a shelter for a long period of time or had to be put down - they would feel such responsibility- because they are a good breeder. xo

@brushingboots yes they’re trying stuff like agility and scent work and rally now to try and do brain work to tire them out 😁. But again that takes time and effort which isn’t the easiest thing to prioritise with a young child/children. I’m certainly not against cockers, I’d possibly consider one myself once I cut my hours at work down but then i don’t have (young) children.

Cockers are amazing dogs - for families with teens or without children. For people who can put a lot of time into them.
A 4 year old and a cocker has a high chance of problems unfortunately

@MoominUnderWater Of course! The point I was making really is that you don't need to spend hours and hours a day walking them if what you're doing is good in the first place. If you're getting a dog and you have kids surely (maybe this is optimistic of me!) you have worked out how much time you've got in the day for the dog, and it's surely at least an hour.

I wouldn’t ring again, it’s quite final to decline a family. I would feel upset too. It’s great that you want to find a good breeder, there are plenty more responsible breeders out there. I found a good breeder very quickly (for a different breed), we spoke on the phone and I was comfortable that this was the person raising my puppy for its first 8 weeks.

Why go to a breeder? There are so many gorgeous rescue dogs which need good homes.

Of course an adult dog can have their needs met with a couple of decent walks (where the human is one to one with the dog, engaging with them, giving them an outlet for their breed traits - not a twice daily trundle round the streets on a lead to school and back!!)... and then sack out for the rest of teh day with perhaps a spot of training at a convenient time, or a few enrichment games ... thats pretty much what my adult dogs do.

But a puppy needs input repeatedly through the day, they (particularly cockers) need help to nap, to feel secure, they need to be managed the whole time they're awake to ensure they're learning what they should, not learning what they shouldn't, popping out here and there for socialisation/habituation sessions out front or in the car, in and out to the toilet all the time.

You cannot condense down what a puppy needs into a couple of neat blocks each day, and if you have a small child, their needs absolutely will compete with the puppies needs and they're often not compatible. It is always going to be the puppy who loses out too.

Following my post above - we’re a spaniel family. Had a disaster when my kids were 4 and 7 and had to rehome. Spaniels are full on, need mental and physical stimulation and need to be in families where there is at least one doggy parent at home… and they don’t understand that a 4 or 7 year old needs attention first. We still have spaniels (sprocker and springer currently) but absolutely understand why breeder declined your adoption. If you’d love a spaniel (and they are adorable family pets, affectionate and loving) I’d would encourage patience and wait a few years. They are highly strung, prone to anxiety and separation anxiety especially, and need consistent attention, walks and a drama free home. I am obsessed with mine and even my reluctant spaniel owning DH is soppy with them… but they are worth waiting until you KNOW you can walk them regularly and keep them entertained. My kids are now 17 and 20 (still at home) and they are 2 and 3.5yrs…

Cockers can be really unpredictable. Get a staffie. You won't regret it.