Breeder turned us down

[Sellingseashells]

Spoken to a breeder last night about pups due later this year. Was recommended by a friend.i though it was going well but breeder said no. Said he don’t sell to people with children. DC are 10 and 4. Dog savvy.

i know the breeder doesn’t have to sell to us, but I’m really upset. Is it worth trying again? What do I do?

Ah good, another thread full of cocker-bashing, and that of first-time owners.

It is perfectly possible to have a cocker spaniel of any variety as a first dog if you know how to give them what they need. My two-year-old working cocker has between 90-150 minutes of exercise a day. That is not hours and hours, especially spread over two walks. Almost all of her walks are offlead and most of them involve training of some kind or other, at least for a portion. We do a lot of gundog work too. She sleeps all day when not out with me, has never guarded, didn't nip as a puppy anymore than any other puppy would, and doesn't have separation anxiety. There isn't an aggressive bone in her body. She's wonderful.

So-called 'cocker rage' is very rare. It isn't the term used for your dog snapping because your child has pulled its tail when its asleep (or whatever) – it's a neurological condition.

It's not for me to say whether or not OP should or shouldn't have a cocker, but I must defend both these wonderful dogs and the many families that manage to give their dogs what they need – even as first-timers, shockingly! It's not hard to give a cocker, or any other dog, what they need: you just have to commit to it, and do your research. It sounds like OP is doing just that.

This isn't really aimed at the people on this thread but at those who might find it later, lurking, while they do their research. I lurked for a long time here pre-pup and when she was little, and I read so many horrible, one-sided threads about spaniels where responsible, well-prepared owners didn't pipe up to give another view.

My Dalmatian Bonzo, was the sweetest, loveliest boy ever. Bought him with some of my 21st birthday money.
I caught two little kids sticking their fingers in his eyes in a shop, he didn't even flinch.
I'd never have a Border Collie, they are far too clever for a home setting unless for flyball etc.

It's their choice and sounds like they are good breeders. Most good breeders have requirements eg someone at home majority of the day.

I think fair play to the breeder. as someone who has rescued for years and also works closely with rescues this is good news. rescues are full of abandoned dogs bred badly and dumped. but why are you writing off rescues ? the one I worked with had 56 puppies there in March. mixture of Jack's labradorite etc. majority were homed with families with children. another charity here does classes on a Saturday to allow families to see what work is required etc with dogs and also gets them familiar to different breeds. don't underestimate the work a puppy requires my lad is a year in August ( dumped on the pound by the breeder who couldn't sell him 🤷‍♀️) my 1st puppy in 15 years lord forgot how much work is required. he is a loveable chap not a bad bone in him but god he is lively. where my other 2 are old and are easy to look after. I wouldn't go by looks either, one of my three is super cute and tiny but she is the worst one -she a little b and gets very jelouse. Best dogs I think for easy to look after - and the most over looked - is greyhound and lurchers.

Go to a rescue centre and adopt one of the many, many abandoned pups in need of a home. Stop giving lots of money to breeders.
Problem solved.

Cocker spaniels are quite bad for resource guarding, not saying that you couldn't train one not to be, but for a first family dog, I'd recommend one of the retriever breeds, like a Golden. We have a cocker x poodle as a third dog after the retrievers, and even as experienced owners, we were slightly shocked with his puppy biting. We worked on his resource guarding from a youngster, but even now he still does it around other dogs.

My 3yo is very dog savvy, we had a dog when she was born, she grew up with her. All my side of the family have dogs. She doesn't know life without one.

It would be your children's first dog. The breeder is a good breeder and will have better options. Other good breeders may take the same approach.

Dogs go into rescues for many reasons and a good rescue will also be careful where they place their animals. We had a rescue cat rather than a dog but although I've had many pets in my life she was special. Rescues may be shy and need extra care at first but they can be really great.

Because they need so much time/ excerise, I wouldn’t say they are a great first family dog. Lovely dogs but there is a learning curve with dogs and a dog with such needs may not be the best

Like pps I think you should pick another breed.

I agree. My friend and also niece both have crazy cockapoos. They spent a lot of money but both are unrelated and both crazy.

There is no comparison between working or show kennels who are breeding from health tested stock, and backstreet breeders that are basically on a par with puppy farms. This is the whole problem with dog breeding; people really need to do their research before buying a pup and not buy from free ads just because the puppy looks cute.
Go to the breed club for recommendations, visit a dog show and talk to people in your chosen breed. Do your research on what health issues the breed has and what health checks the breeders should be doing.
It shouldn't be easy to get a good pup. You might have to go on a waiting list, be asked to fill in a lifestyle questionnaire, have a home check and need written references from a vet, neighbour etc. In the event that the pup needs rehoming, the breeder should be willing to take it back.
There are breeders who care about the wellbeing of the dogs and aren't just in it for money. If the breeder is fussy about who they sell to, it's a good sign. Sure, it can be frustrating, but it should be seen as a positive.

I face this a lot from people, the vet has him down as a cockapoo, his insurance has him down as a cockapoo, his groomer has him down as a cockapoo so if a bunch of professionals say that about him it makes you wonder, personally i dont care, i love him for him and thats all that matters to me!,you know nothing about the breeder who we got him from, who I had long chat with about costs of keeping him. Socialising him, Grooming etc before I could meet him so jog on you know nothing about him or me!

Honestly - as someone dealing with people raising puppies, particularly cocker spaniels and cockerpoos, daily, I would heed the breeders caution here and hang fire a year or two before looking again.

Raising a puppy with a 4 year old who will be impulsive, struggle to follow instructions, forget instructions, want to cuddle the puppy or take things from the puppy... will be hard and what inevitably happens is the puppy is shut away from the children for safety, and then misses out on vital early experiences, gets very frustrated and hard to manage and no one has a good time.

And thats if your puppy does not develop a resource guarding issue - which cockers are extremely prone to and a million times more if they live in a home with small children, and all the bits and bobs that go with small children.

Kids can be great at following rules that only come into play occasionally, ie. 'don't approach other peoples dogs' - but when they LIVE with that dog full time it is a very different prospect.

It is also pretty much impossible to give a 4 year old an understanding of what having a puppy will really be like - they will think (because I deal with adults who think this) that their puppy is a cute instant best friend and playmate. They will then be shocked and very upset, possibly even frightened, when that best friend hurts them repeatedly and does not care.

So instead of a lovely summer of fun with a puppy, you'll be trying to manage the needs of a stressed out, upset and scared child, a frustrated bitey puppy, and wishing very much that you'd just gone to Build a Bear.

Please don't just look for a breeder who will sell you a puppy without caring how either the puppy or your children will fare. I'd ask the original breeder how old a kid they'd consider!

Or - and I would still caution to wait a couple more years - go for a breed less inclined to pick up, carry and guard stuff, less busy and full on, more inclined to napping and letting family life wash over them! Gundogs are lovely but that breeding to hold/carry stuff is an absolute pain in the bum for many family homes - if spaniels are REALLY your bag... go for a Clumber, Sussex or, if you can find one from MRI scanned, heart tested parents (good luck!!) a Cavalier King Charles. They are all far steadier, easier going than the Cockers.

Interesting thread! I have a lot of friends with working and show cockers and are families. So many families have spaniels! But very young I cannot remember perhaps slightly older children than 4.
Happy to share my experiences with my dog ( any excuse as I remain totally smitten).
I myself have a show cocker male and still in tact at 7 years old. ( vets advice as there was no reason to ). He is my first dog so I’m not going to claim to know the breed intrinsically but I’ve been really surprised to hear about the biting.

I do agree that working dogs are intense and need lots of stimulation mental as well as physical. This has been my observations of friends dogs but all are affectionate and friendly.

Long walks needed and also gun dog training for the working types but the ones I know are ball obsessed and I’ve never ever considered them as biters.
My own show cocker is adorable and always has been. As a puppy, he was slightly nippy initially ( which is normal I heard) but I used to squeak immediately if he did nip ( fairly rare) and he learnt very quickly not. Additionally, the dogs mother teaches bite inhibition so it’s key the pup isn't taken away too early from mum. Earliest 8 weeks better at 12. The last thing I’d ever describe my dog is a biter. He barks a bit at the pigeons and squirrels in back garden but it’s not a hunting breed. He does resource guard but not in a biting way and I use treats to exchange. I am careful if I have him and another dog wanting a treat as if the other dog tried to grab my dogs treat then my dog would snap. So I avoid that situation or treat separately apart. I did lots of socialisation with him before 20 weeks old and 2 sets of training plus a bit of gun dog. The bond I have with him is incredible. He is without a doubt my best friend and the kids love him. He has so much love and cuddling and I’m sure that helps.

That said my youngest was 10 when I got him and trying to think back my kids at 4 were full on so I doubt I would have been able to train him aswell as I did at that age. This I think is the problem the breeder is probably considering.

Being a male, my dog can sometimes get aggressive if a larger dog is bad mannered and tries to bound up fast and dominate him. My dog will then defend himself and can growl and warn the other dog off. But he doesn’t bite the other dog. He is beautifully behaved when I’ve met toddlers and young children out walking , will never jump up, and will sit patiently and allow them to offer a treat and take it gently. His temperament is very easy going. Some things are down to good training but he was VERY easy to train. Much easier I thought than the kids!!

The reason I went for that breed is because I did my research and it says it was a good family breed.
I would say 2 walks a day 30 minutes minimum. And needs interaction and cuddles at various intervals but sleeps a lot on between as I work from home
I would not leave him for more than 5 hours and yes he misses us and vice versa if we leave him with a dog boarder.
I would definitely get a show cocker as a family dog but perhaps wait until children are more 8/9 years old. Then you will get the best out of these wonderful animals. Just accept the breeders decision. Perhaps do borrow my doggie in the meantime. Good luck - you will love this breed and I hope you get one eventually

We've currently got a collie pup with our 3yo DD. She absolutely understands the pup and what's going on. We don't shut the pup away, we're training both of them how to behave with each other. DD has only ever known life with a collie.

It is incredibly hard work but it's very worth it, for us. DD also isn't scared at all of the puppy teeth or any aspect of her.

It is possible if it's done right.

I have a cockerpoo, he is 11. He is incredibly needy and will try to displace adults for attention. Despite excellent training and perfect recall, so far, I would not let him near young children. I would not recommend, as others have said, any of the spaniel breeds or crossbreeds with young children in the house. They require a lot of training, a lot of exercise and can still surprise when older.

Sounds like an amazing breeder and it’s not often you get one that will turn down sale….
I worked within the animal care/rescue industry for over 10 years and worked for a rescue as a volunteer dog fosterer and home vetter and too often breeders sell with no checks what so ever.
He sounds super sensible, I wouldn’t get a cocker spaniel full stop, I’ve met some nice ones but I’ve also met many snappy, nervous, clingy ones and I know quite a few that ended up at the rescue for resource guarding etc
If you haven’t had a dog before, I wouldn’t suggest a cocker for first time dog owners and I’ve had 10 dogs myself since I’ve been an adult and fostered over 45 dogs for 3 different rescues.

Edited to add that all my dogs bar 3 have been rescues and obviously our foster dogs all were, I have primary and secondary aged children and because the rescues were reputable they placed suitable dogs here, dogs that had come in from family homes due to a change in working hours, puppies etc I fostered 4 puppies for the blue cross that said our family home was the most perfect place for puppies because of the socialisation we were able to offer.
Our first rescue was 14 months old when we adopted him, my children were 4 and 6 years old. They are best friends and have grown together, it’s said when people discount rescues straight away.

Our neighbour’s young Cockerpoo has just been rehomed due to biting. They had children under ten who were all devastated as had grown very attached but it had to be done as it wasn’t safe around the children’s friends.
Sounds like the breeder knows what he’s talking about.

There are millions of people selling dogs across the Uk why would you get so upset about this.

Cocker spaniel and little kids aren't a good match. Didn't you do research first? The 2 rescues I work with wouldn't home a spaniel with young children either so good on the breeder for being responsible. Do your research first then find a pup

Have to say i don’t think this is always true and maybe one of the reasons why so many show cockers end up in rescues. People buy into this picture of show cockers being calm.

I’m glad yours is calm and probably compared to a working cocker it is. But it’s not going to be as calm as something like a cavalier (not that I’d recommend cavs) or a bichon frise.

Saying that the OP says she grew up with them so must know what their energy levels are like. I have two friends with show cockers,both get walked for 2 hours a day off lead and still aren’t knackered. They do stuff like rally and scent work and agility to try and wear them out more. That sort of effort isn’t feasible for most families with small children.

Cocker spaniels can be bity. I have two, one has to wear a muzzle at the vet for her routine check up. She's lovely and loving but she will resource guard and as a puppy we all had to wear Crocs as she liked to bite our toes. We had a rescue Spaniel before our current two, and their policy was not to rehome to a house with children under 5. The breeder was just being responsible. I've seen too many posts on here of people deciding to rehome their puppy/dog due to biting.

How ridiculous. We've just got a german shepherd and my DDs are 5 and 8. Pup is 7 months now, got her in December and weighs 28kg atm. It takes a lot of training and loads of awareness but if a GSD can be ok with kids... Go to a different breeder, that one sounds nuts.

I was turned down by a cocker spaniel breeder when my kids were young. Read up about ‘cocker rage’ it’s uncommon but it can happen.
The breeder was lovely and actually recommended getting a setter instead which is what we did, especially when she heard dh and I had both grown up with them, dh thought a spaniel would be better with young kids because they are smaller.
Kids both in 20s now, we might get one as our next dog!