Dog breeders advice for starting as a breeder.

[fluffbreeder]

I have a question as I’ve been thinking longer term about being a breeder, I’m 50 now and would something I would look to start in 5-8 years, I already own 3 dogs of the breed I love and I’ve had dogs for over 25+ years. We have acres and the space and funds for me to do this and my DH is onboard.

How does anyone start as the KC pups are all breed restricted? I’d love to hear from breeders, did you plan to become one?

this would be my only role as I’m aiming to retire so I’d like to do my research now.

How did you get your first puppy you could breed from and how frequently do you have litters?

Also I do hear there are enough dogs, and it’s an irresponsible thing to do, is that generally the thought of breeders as well? Is this something to just keep a pipe dream?

My plan would be to get the next pup, female and not restricted in the next 2 years, but would a KC breeder sell to me?

many thanks in advance for any advice, good and bad!

Why not open a rescue if you have land and money? Enough ddogs without decent homes without creating more...
Fix that instead..
HTH..

I agree with this sentiment though not the way it is said

Don’t. Around 130,000 dogs are surrendered to rescue in the UK every year. We do not need more breeders.

This.

There really doesn't need a polite way to shut down the suggestion of making more ddogs for fun....

Yeah, please don’t. Sounds like you want to do it for the money and not to improve the breed. All the time there are dogs languishing in kennels waiting to be rehomed then breeding is unnecessary unless you are looking to save an endangered breed from extinction.

The cost of living is getting higher and higher and responsible dog ownership is expensive. The pool of people who can take on a 10-15 year commitment is getting smaller and smaller. Why add to the unwanted dog population.

Reputable dog breeders only breed puppies to improve the health and standard of their breed.

How long have you been showing your dogs?
Are you well known in your breed?
Are you extremely knowledgeable about your breed's health issues, traits and form?
How much do you know about genetics?
Do you have thousands in the bank ready for health testing, vet bills, emergency surgery, hand rearing supplies? Many breeders make a loss on their litters due to extra costs.

No, I absolutely would not sell you a puppy, because from what you've said, you sound like a typical BYB. Even if someone did sell you a puppy to breed from, they come with endorsements so you wouldn't be able to breed from it anyway unless you satisfied the very strict criteria to lift them.

I’m not thinking about the money tbh that’s not really why I’m thinking about it.

If your dogs are genuinely well bred examples of the breed, go back to the breeder, explain what you would like to do. A good, experienced breeder, after asking lots of questions and satisfying themselves that you would do things correctly, with care, may lift the restriction on the bitch’s KC registration. If your breeder does this, they are also usually keen to give you support and advice throughout the process.

Some breeders are very precious about their line and won’t allow anyone to breed from their stock, but most don’t take that position if they are confident that you will do a good job.

Note to others, not everyone wants a rescue dog and wanting a pedigree puppy is not a crime. Though no doubt I’ll be flamed now by posters saying it should be. 🙄

I think the fact you need to ask these questions means you should not be thinking of breeding.
Breeding should only be done to improve the quality of the breed. The only starting point is having a bitch which has come from fully health tested parents which has matured into an above average example of the breed.
Only then would you consider looking for a suitable mate who's qualities would compliment your bitch, thus hopefully improving on what is already a good example.
The chances of buying a pup and it meeting this criteria is slim.

I think the idea of setting up a rescue is worth considering .

There are more than enough dogs out there needing homes. Please do not contribute to their numbers or the misery and exploitation of animals used for breeding. The world really does not need more dogs just because you think it’d be nice to raise puppies.

No clue re your question as such , but I have a KC dog , and the only restriction i have is that I can’t export them without permission? I also know someone else who has large breeds , their restrictions state that they can’t breed until they have clear hip and elbow tests done ?
so I’m curious as to what restrictions you speak of ?
Also to all the previous posters saying about rescues being over run, whilst this is true and awfully sad, people will continue to buy puppies for all sorts of reasons , the main being some rescues won’t rehome with children or full time workers , whether I agree or not is irrelevant - it’s true.

@StrikeForeverthanks that’s a good start, this is my question as all breeders must have started somewhere, so who sold them a pup without restrictions?

In answer to the other poster who called me a back yard breeder. Yes i do know the genetics, the breed very well, pros and cons and the money isn’t an issue. I’m fully aware of the risk of loosing on litters and the risks to the bitch.

But those question are all valid and helpful and yes I’ve attended shows but not with my own dogs.

If it’s not about the money there are plenty of ways you could work with dogs in a more positive way - grooming, fostering, working with rescues, boarding / providing holiday care etc etc.

No REPUTABLE breeder will sell you a puppy for the purposes of starting a (lovely I'm sure....) puppy farm. Which is exactly what breeding dogs purely for profit is.
Good breeders only breed to improve the breed, ie from dogs with proven sound temperaments that have been successful in work or showing. They will also only breed when they have a waiting list, the breeder I have my eye on for my next dog only breeds once every few years to keep her line going.
As an experienced owner and being heavily involved in the dog world things I consider essential before I would consider buying a puppy.
Kc registered parents.
Both parents tested for all relevant breed related health tests and with good results.
Bitch and stud both having excellent stable temperaments, for my breed (gundog) I would want them to have been shown able to work in some activity.
Puppies to be reared in the home, not a kennel.
An experienced breeder/owner who understands how to care for and raise puppies that are confident and outgoing and have been exposed to various different environments before leaving the breeder.
Them to be asking me plenty of questions to check I am a suitable owner and for them to have a contract stating that puppies should be returned at any point in their life if I am unable to keep it.
There are other things I am sure but these spring to mind.

I would never buy a puppy from someone who is breeding multiple litters a year from different breeds, who doesn't work the dogs in any way, keeps them in kennels, doesn't health test, doesn't demonstrate any purpose for the litter beyond having puppies to sell.

Not everyone can rescue - we have small children and was trying to rescue for 4 years (since DH started to permanently wfh) before giving up and buying a puppy. I think it’s a lovely thing to do in your retirement.

@Abc1weabc1and that’s why I’m asking? And if I do want to improve the quality of breed what’s the difference? Clearly I wouldn’t want to breed genetically poor animals.

If this is the case you didn't get your dog from a reputable breeder.

You could also dog board maybe. And run puppy training classes. I’d love this.

@Onlyvisitingand that’s exactly the criteria we used to buy our current dogs. We waited 2 years for our last dog. Why would I be starting a Puppy farm? I haven’t mentioned doing it just for profit, but the breeders do sell for profits so what the difference? The fact they are active in the dog world?

I wasn’t planning on shoving them in outside kennels and breeding multiple bitches on a 6 month basis!

Most decent breeders will endorse pedigrees as progeny not eligible for registration.
What this means is you can't breed and register puppies from them unless your dogs breeder lifts the restriction.
Depending on the breeder they may be absolute or they may have a contract which states the terms they will lift the endorsement.
In the case if the dogs I have bought over the years the contract usually stated they would lift the endorsement provided the bitch has reached
X age
Passed all health tests,
Stud also as above and chosen by agreement between owner and breeder.

No one sold them a puppy without endorsements. Which is what they're called, not, "restrictions". The fact that you don't even know the correct term despite already owning dogs is very telling.

If someone wants endorsements lifted, they have to fulfil certain criteria. Excellent show results, excellent health test results, temperament checks and proof that the dog is an extremely good example of the breed. This can take decades.

I am very doubtful that you know your breed very well if you don't even know what endorsements are.

That’s always an option with our last place we rented the paddock to a dog trainer. And we have acres here that we could do the same with.

We are rural and there are some really popular kennels very close to us, so not sure we’d compete with the local family, who are lovely.

Then you research breeders and talk to them and find one who is willing to let s bitch go with a contract with agreed terms to lift the endorsement.
You are more likely to be able to form a good relationship with them if you csn get yourself known by working/showing your existing dogs.
And if you have never bred a dog before you really need one who is willing to mentor and support you through it. There are a lot of risks to pregnancy and birth and they are all exacerbated by someone who doesn't know what they are doing.
It would also help your case to be able to show that you have learnt all you can about breeding and puppy rearing by reading, researching etc.

Book of the bitch is generally highly recommended as a starting point.

I haven't been on it for years but champdogs used to have a very active forum which was a great place to talk to other owners and breeders and get advice and support.

@SquashedSquidumm I’ve only owned males so apologies for not knowing the correct terminology. I’ve never had to lift an endorsement, hence me asking.

I’m not sure why something that’s new to people offends you so much? I’m sure at some point you didnt have all the knowledge that you do now and had to learn and ask questions?