Dog breeders advice for starting as a breeder.

[fluffbreeder]

I have a question as I’ve been thinking longer term about being a breeder, I’m 50 now and would something I would look to start in 5-8 years, I already own 3 dogs of the breed I love and I’ve had dogs for over 25+ years. We have acres and the space and funds for me to do this and my DH is onboard.

How does anyone start as the KC pups are all breed restricted? I’d love to hear from breeders, did you plan to become one?

this would be my only role as I’m aiming to retire so I’d like to do my research now.

How did you get your first puppy you could breed from and how frequently do you have litters?

Also I do hear there are enough dogs, and it’s an irresponsible thing to do, is that generally the thought of breeders as well? Is this something to just keep a pipe dream?

My plan would be to get the next pup, female and not restricted in the next 2 years, but would a KC breeder sell to me?

many thanks in advance for any advice, good and bad!

Because if no one did, we'd pretty soon have no dogs but random-bred dogs living on the streets - and if you've ever seen a hungry lactating street bitch, you might not be a fan of that.

MN in general is very anti breeding dogs, the answer is always 'get a rescue' - which isn't an effective answer for many people. If you look at the dogs in rescue, they are by and large not pedigree dogs - my own breed isnt super-rare, but it's very unusual to see one on the usual rescue pages.

@LandSharksAnonymoushappy to reply point by point if you’d like.

That’s one area that stood out to me to reassure you it wasn’t going to be a complete shock that dogs kill pups.

I'm not sure why the impression that I need or want to just do this to make money come from? I have money, I don’t need to make an income, but clearly somehow this is a concern.

But breeders don’t give pups away they also make money?

Oh God, Bernese Mountain Dogs - do you know just how many are in rescue kennels ...

Many Tears have 3, all elderly i.e. 7 and 8 - big dogs don't live as long as small dogs... Thank God each one is in foster care and not kennels.

each one discarded by her breeder as she's done her job so it's time to get rid. but at least they ended up in rescue, they could have been dumped in the slurry pit.

And that’s why I’m asking, the highly reputable breeders has a first litter once??

It's not normal to just leap in with wantbto breed.

Why not get involved in the breed, train, show and work your dogs. Get some titles on them, enjoy them and by so doing you will show others in the breed that you are serious and have the right intentions.

Then you are far more likely to have the right connections to buy a well bred dog and have the relationship where a breeder may lift restrictions if you jump the health testing, showing and behavioural hoops.

BMD aren't the easiest to breed with their short lifespan and the cancer gene that seems to be endemic, but at least can now test for likelihood of issues

Reputable breeders spend years earning their reputation. Decades.

My ‘first’ litter was from a pup that my mums bitch had. Most breeders I know got into it through family or friends who were in it - they helped ween litters and watched as dogs gave birth. They were there day in and day out helping raise the pups, in some cases litter after litter, before they ever had their own.

We don’t just appear out of thin air one day, breed a litter and go ‘woo-hoo I’m reputable.’

This is the point I’ve made repeatedly - doing it well takes more effort than you’re coming across as being prepared to give. Maybe I’m wrong. But my spider sense has tingled and the tingle is usually right.

Meh find a breeder who will give you a bitch and they’ll take a pup from the first litter as payment. Don’t worry about papers, these are easily swapped about. That is part of the world you want to enter.

@fluffbreeder I think the fact you are asking for advice is great. I don’t see why you couldn’t be a responsible breeder. Of course everyone has to start somewhere. I think as others have said you should look elsewhere for advice. What about contacting the breeder you got your dogs from and attending shows and talking to people. Also is there a breed association you could join.

I’m a bit surprised so many people are against someone doing this responsibility. Do they think we should ban all pets? Because that seems to be the logical conclusion if no one can breed. Or is it only for a select few who are deemed to be allowed.

Obviously puppy farms are wrong but the OP is not planning on setting one up. So why are so many people treating her like she is planning something suspect?

Good luck OP I hope you find people who are helpful and caring to support you.

It's a bit rich of you to tell her not to do something that you do yourself. The only difference between you and her is that your mum could show you what to do and provide you with a dog to start you off. Your tone is very patronising to someone who is just asking questions.

@Jolenepleasetakeawaymyman thanks, I’m a member of the BMD groups and I’m going to speak to my current dogs breeder and get some further advice from her, she maybe a tad more helpful.

I was just chatting to DH this evening and sounding him out with thoughts and as a farmer he said he would be onboard once our current pack was no more and our DS are doing more around the place.

Hence me posting to ask where does someone get started.

The thought of a rescue hadn’t crossed my mind and if there’s a need for more BMD rescues then I could look into that as well.

And?

If you have the time and resources to breed then plough them into helping those poor strays and existing dogs without a home. When that problem is solved you might have a point.

Please don’t breed any more dogs. Help out at a rescue instead

Why don't you open a centre for retired Greyhounds who are still being cruelly raced and when their racing life is over or they weren't fast enough to make the grade they are in need of shelter and homes.

Ethical breeders don’t start as breeders though - they’d be approaching someone for a show or working prospect puppy that they may or may not breed from once it’s proven at that…so that breeder would usually help coach them through things.

There are too many unwanted dogs & the amount of breeds that are frankly unhealthy makes ongoing breeding unsustainable.
I love dogs but breeders need more stringent licensing. I don't think this is really a career plan. It's expensive as you'll need vet support should something go wrong, & it's hardly a positive life for a dog to be breeding regularly.

Also to all the previous posters saying about rescues being over run, whilst this is true and awfully sad, people will continue to buy puppies for all sorts of reasons , the main being some rescues won’t rehome with children or full time workers , whether I agree or not is irrelevant - it’s true.

This is so true plus whether people will acknowledge it or not just look at the threads and threads of people asking what a suitable breed for their family would be- a huge percentage of the answers will not be found in a rescue (it’s so sad but it’s true and I don’t know how we fix the horrific state of dog allocation and or welfare)

There's definitely a need for rescue services. And for rehabilitating dogs that have been damaged by either unscrupulous breeders who no longer want them or from plainly unkind people who don't use dogs for their own purposes, or abuse them.

Why do you need a pedigree? Why do you think that rehoming a rescue dog isn't an answer when they fill rescue centres & yet people are selfishly breeding MORE DOGS.

There is no benefit for a female dog to go through pregnancy, birth, then have her pups taken away. I would not put my dog through that for a million pounds.

Your dismissive 'And?' leads me to think that ether you want the domestic dog to cease to exist, or you don't give a shit about hungry feral bitches with litters of puppies (often hungry themselves, and infested with worms and fleas). Neither of those is an attitude I can agree with.

Someone said upthread that about 130,000 dogs go into rescue in the UK every year.

Pre-Covid, the UK dog population was around 10million, at a conservative estimate. The average life expectancy of a dog is about 12 years. If the canine population were to settle back to pre-Covid levels, we'd be looking at somewhere around 830,00 new dogs coming on the scene each year to replace the ones who have died.

830,000 less 130,000 = about 700,000 puppies - or maybe overseas rescues, but a LOT of these do not pan out well in pet homes.

So either puppies continue to be bred - and I'd much prefer my next puppy to have ben born and raised in someone's kitchen rather than some hellhole puppy farm - or we'll run of dogs.

Did you mean to be so rude. 🤣

@EdithStourton that wasn’t me saying …. And.

No, I wasn't quoting you - I was quoting @ArtTheClownIsNotAMime

I don't think your breeder is the right person to ask for advice, if the dogs you have now aren't endorsed. That means she was not a reputable breeder.

What's her affix?

The "and" was to you saying you can't find your favourite breeds in shelters. Which leads me to believe you don't actually care about dogs, just an arbitrary collection of features that we call a breed. Save your faux outrage about hungry dogs when you and others like you are the reason there are strays and homeless dogs in rescues.