Dog breeders advice for starting as a breeder.

[fluffbreeder]

I have a question as I’ve been thinking longer term about being a breeder, I’m 50 now and would something I would look to start in 5-8 years, I already own 3 dogs of the breed I love and I’ve had dogs for over 25+ years. We have acres and the space and funds for me to do this and my DH is onboard.

How does anyone start as the KC pups are all breed restricted? I’d love to hear from breeders, did you plan to become one?

this would be my only role as I’m aiming to retire so I’d like to do my research now.

How did you get your first puppy you could breed from and how frequently do you have litters?

Also I do hear there are enough dogs, and it’s an irresponsible thing to do, is that generally the thought of breeders as well? Is this something to just keep a pipe dream?

My plan would be to get the next pup, female and not restricted in the next 2 years, but would a KC breeder sell to me?

many thanks in advance for any advice, good and bad!

If you can get planning permission and have the funds then private exercise fields are becoming hugely popular.

Out of interest, if you have a dog with a restriction, how do they stop you breeding?

wouldn’t it be pretty impossible to enforce?

is it simply you can’t KC register the pups? Which you explain why byb and puppy farms go for the doodlydoos rather than pedigrees.

@Onlyvisitingthank you, I’ll get reading.

We don’t have a separate access to our land else I’d love to do that, we used a local paw paddock ourselves while looking after a friends dog and they are great.

good idea for reactive dogs.

What breed are you talking about?

Please also remember breeding dogs is regulated in certain circumstances and so is dog boarding. So please do your research and get properly licenced. Speak to you local authority. www.gov.uk/government/publications/animal-activities-licensing-guidance-for-local-authorities

Oh FFS, being pedantic and taking a superior attitude doesn’t necessarily mean you know more than I do. Haven’t you ever gone into a room and not known what you went in for? Not coming up with the right word is the same sort if cognitive hiccups up! Just wind your neck in!

I’m an old woman now and well out of dog showing and breeding (though I still have well bred dogs). I showed Weimaraners 40+ years ago, then went on to breed three litters, having returned to the breeder of my initial dogs. I was given lots of support and guidance by her. I kept a dog (or bitch) from each litter. My dogs all received the best care and I would not sell a puppy to anyone unless I had established as far as possible that they understood and could meet the needs of the breed.

In own 3 Bernese mountain dogs.

Because it shouldn't be new to you. Anyone buying a puppy, ever, should be checkingh that it comes with endorsements. If you've had dogs for years and you've never checked, then you really, really are not the right person to breed dogs.

I’m fully aware of the risk of loosing on litters and the risks to the bitch.

Why do you feel you're entitled to put an animal through those risks?

I wasn't even replying to you, but carry on. I'm sorry that you're so angry.

You don’t need acres of space or a huge house to be a breeder. Dog breeding isn’t a role. It’s not a job.

But, as you asked for advice. Ask yourself these questions;

If the bitch turned around and killed all her pups in front of you, what would you do? How would you continue your bond with that dog in the future, keep her in your house after having watch her kill all her puppies. If the thought of that shocks, or repulses you, or you can’t actually imagine how you would respond, you’re not fit to be a breeder.

If one of the pups was born dead, how would you react? Because if your answer is anything other than ‘remove dead pup when mum was ready and carry on as normal’ (aka you do not show emotional distress), then you’re not fit to be a breeder.

Are you prepared to function on 3-4hours sleep for weeks on end when you have a litter? Because that’s what it takes to raise a littler well - to ensure they have the best possible start. You don’t just ‘dump’ the pups on mum and change the newspaper a few times a day. It’s constant. If you’re not prepared for that, you’re not fit to be a breeder.

Are you prepared to spend days, if not weeks, meeting and vetting people? If you’re not prepared for that, you’re not fit to be a breeder.

Are you prepared to make a financial loss? Because I will on my next litter - probably £2-3K.

Are you prepared to do all health and genetic testing? If you’re not, then you’re not fit to be a breeder.

How will you keep a in-spayed bitch safe and well cared for if you own male dogs?

Have you thought about how many litters you’ll have per bitch (I’m assuming m, given you are calling it a ‘role’ you’ll want easily half a dozen bitches)? How you’ll socialise them? What you’ll do with the girls when they can’t breed anymore?

How you’ll care for your existing dogs when you’re spending 20+hrs a day taking care of a litter?

have you thought about the emotional and physical toll it takes on you? On your relationships?

Have you given any thought to how you will begin to house-train 9+ pups at a time? Because that’s what a good breeders does.

I could go on tbh, but I’m tired and grumpy.

BUT, please don’t say you’re aware of the risks when, given you have shown how little you do know, you clearly aren’t - I’m not trying to be rude, but it’s clear you haven’t considered this at all.

Breeding is not easy. Puppy farmers make it look easy because they put in minimal effort - and that’s why there are so many fucked up dogs out there. They are a product of the environment they were born in.

I spent fifteen years helping my mum breed before I started. It’s hard work to do it properly. It takes over your life for months, not weeks. And good breeders provide life-time support. It’s not just ‘wham, bam, pups, money’ it’s more like ‘terror, sickness, exhaustion, fear, sickness, empty wallet’ when you do it as it should be done.

@SquashedSquid like I said I’ve never owed a female, I called it restrictions not endorsement. That doesn’t make me the twat you’ve made up in your head.

Oh, good. I know a lot about this breed. What lines are yours from? Why haven't you been showing them? Do you work them?

This, and everyone else who has said the same, how awful breeding dogs when there are thousands in rescue, you aren’t a genuine dog lover

Male puppies have endorsements too.

This is a weird post.
There are BMD communities online and on FB where many people will know how to help you.
But you post on MN, known well for leaping on dog breeders. Are you on the wind up?

@LandSharksAnonymous

Thats really helpful so thanks for taking time out to write such a long post. I’m not overly worried about some of your points hard as it is I’m from a rural farming background so the reality of death etc I would be emotionally able to cope with.

In terms of my own current dogs I wouldn’t breed when they are still around. Hence the timeframe.

I’d looking into the council requirements of your area for a breeding license - there’s Facebook groups called licensed breeders UK, where you can find out the reality of dog breeding. I did it for 2 years, it aged me about 15 years. I loved it at moments but dealing with the puppy owners is the hardest and worst part. I have been incredibly fortunate that all my puppies were and still are with amazing families. I will always at any point in my life take back a puppy/adult dog who the family can no longer home - the thought of any dog going into a shelter makes me feel ill. People also underestimate the cost of doing it correctly and at the highest standard, there is very little money in doing it right - that’s why there’s so many back yard breeders and little reputable and ethical breeders.
the breed you’re thinking of breeding is very niche, so you have to be prepared for puppies not selling and you having more dogs as a result. The cost of living and the unpredictability of the vet market due to the corporate companies buying all independent vet practices out has really screwed up pet ownership. Owning a pet is now a luxury, and owning a large dog like a Bernese could be an incredible monthly payment for a person to take on; grooming, insurance, medications etc.

I’ve know many people in the past do one litter and go F* that, it’s incredibly demanding, for 3-4 weeks to sleep with the mum and pups and you’re up every 2 hours, sometimes every 30-60mins depending on how attentive mum is. This is when you’re doing it right - people who leave mum to just “get on” for the first 4 weeks are incredibly naive and irresponsible.

not trying to put you off but there is a very harsh reality to dog breeding, it’s not for the weak or halfarsed (not saying you are that) but if you want to enjoy retirement, I would avoid dog breeding.

I thought it was me that @SquashedSquid was implying was a twat, so I replied in a pretty snippy way. Turned out it was you all along 🤣😂 Don’t worry, I showed and bred 30 to 40+ years ago and I also mistakenly used the term restrictions!

I have a real loathing of dog breeders who wander into it because they like the dogs they have and think it would be a nice thing to do.

I would never ever buy a dog (rescues only here) but can just about understand the desire to continue a breed faithfully amongst the communities who live and breathe that breed. Those breeders do not need to come onto the internet to ask how to get started. I assume they are immersed in the breed and this knowledge comes from their community through the years and being closely linked with other breeders,

Dont do this. You sound clueless and this will result in yet more dogs left on the unwanted heap. Anyone choosing a pedigree mountain dog will be going to a highly reputable established breeder. Not you who fancies giving it a go. So your pups will end up in homes who can’t manage them and then the dogs home.

My neighbour tried this with her gun dogs - complete disaster lost all the pups bar one and had massive vets bills so she didn’t try that again!

I have a miniature dachshund who had served her purpose as a breeding dog. Breeder had 3 litters out of her in her 5 years of life. Apparently, that is allowed. In my opinion, just because it’s allowed, doesn’t mean you should.

When I got her she wasn’t house trained, had never been on a walk and was really nervous. I’ve had her a year and a half and she’s still really nervous.

She has a really saggy belly and the vet says she’s had more than 1 caesarean.

This lady was a registered breeder but had 26 other breeding dogs. A puppy farm in my opinion. Definitely just in it for the money. I still paid £400 for a dog she was basically getting rid of. I’m not bothered about that though, I love her to bits.

I’m totally against it tbh.

I wasn’t aware the doghouse was particularly vicious! So I’ll take my post down if it’s just going to cause a shit fight.

TBH I’m quite annoyed you focussed on the dead animals and not how exhausting, horrible and time-consuming. It makes me think you are entirely focussed on the financial aspect.

The entire point of my post was to make it clear this is not something you enter into lightly, and your response feels quite blasé as you’ve ignored the bulk of what I said and instead focussed on the one bit you feel comfortable about - which, incidentally, is wrong. Watching your muched loved family pet kill her pupps is very very different to watching a pig squash her piglets.