Dog breeders advice for starting as a breeder.

[fluffbreeder]

I have a question as I’ve been thinking longer term about being a breeder, I’m 50 now and would something I would look to start in 5-8 years, I already own 3 dogs of the breed I love and I’ve had dogs for over 25+ years. We have acres and the space and funds for me to do this and my DH is onboard.

How does anyone start as the KC pups are all breed restricted? I’d love to hear from breeders, did you plan to become one?

this would be my only role as I’m aiming to retire so I’d like to do my research now.

How did you get your first puppy you could breed from and how frequently do you have litters?

Also I do hear there are enough dogs, and it’s an irresponsible thing to do, is that generally the thought of breeders as well? Is this something to just keep a pipe dream?

My plan would be to get the next pup, female and not restricted in the next 2 years, but would a KC breeder sell to me?

many thanks in advance for any advice, good and bad!

my current lads are KC registered.

And my point was that it's not the carefully bred pedigree dogs who end up in rescue - those dogs are only a tiny part of the problem. THAT was the point I was making. I though it was obvious. Plainly not.

I'm not the reason why dogs end up in rescue. I didn't breed those dogs, or abandon them.

And 'faux outrage' my arse. When you resort to ad hominems, you weaken your argument.

They are not ‘taken away’, the bitch is already avoiding them, due to being tired of them by the time they are an age to go to homes.

That means literally nothing. Anyone can register a litter. Puppy farmers KC reg all the time.

Yes there are loads dogs in need of rescue.

The op doesn't have to be the one to do it.

I have a rescue dog, before you come at me. But i respect that not everyone wants, or can cope with a rescue dog. The more reputable caring breeders there are out there, the less demand there would be for puppy farms. She's posting here trying to do her research, and she's getting people going on about rescues.

If her preferred breed is a Bernese, why would she then suddenly want a rescue Greyhound? Two completely different breeds with completely different needs. She doesn't have to solve the dog racing industry problems single handed if she doesn't want to.

I’m not naming my UK breeder on here if that’s ok with you.

If breeders are not interested in money, why do they charge thousands of pounds for the puppies?

Exactly my question as well that seems to not get a reply. If they all do it for the benefit of the breed why do they charge!!

My advice would be don’t as you’re very naive and this comes from someone who’s experienced in breeding working labs. We don’t look at our dogs as an income because they certainly aren’t and they’re not bred every year, in fact it’s normally every 3 years and there’s homes waiting for the puppies before they’re born. We never sell to Joe Public.

Personally, I would never have a rescue as we’ve always kept a puppy from litters, I would be uncomfortable taking in a dog I know very little about and having to deal with any unwanted behaviours.

As to why breeders charge thousands for a dog, for us it’s the lineage of the dogs, people who book puppies are aware of the standard of dogs those puppies grow into and it’s taken years to build an exceptional reputation. I can’t speak for people who use bitches as an income as it’s not something we would ever do.

@SillySallieThanks, and that’s the thing yes I’m asking for advice so I’m of course going to be naive in terms of breeding, that’s why I’m asking.

If I know everything I’d already be doing it!

But how did you start? I also in my OP didn’t mention the fact I needed to make income or money or that was my reason for wanting to ask about breeding.

Whats the difference between using a bitch for income and breeding your own bitches very 3 years?

So you have something to hide, then? Odd. In the dog world, we share the names of reputable breeders, know their affix, communicate with them etc.

That's the point. Reputable ones don't. My breed, advertised by puppy farmers on Pets4Homes goes for between £1-2k a puppy. From my very reputable, well known, excellent breeder, £650. Because they're not in it for money.

It’s obvious that she is not naming the breeder because so many on this thread and elsewhere on MN are so against breeding that the breeder would just be attacked too. I’m sure you really know that though, don’t you?

Nope, not at all. I know the breed, so was wondering who the breeder was.

I couldn't care less about breeder hate. Reputable breeders are not the problem and dog people should know this. You won't ever find the dogs of a reputable breeder in rescue. Perhaps they should aim their hate at non-reputable breeders which is why rescues exist.

Oh for goodness sake I’m not some undercover puppy farm owner. I said I’d rather not share the breeder name of my male BMDs if that’s OK, this is an anonymous forum and my current dogs have zero to do with my questions.

I’ve owned retrievers, BMDs and labs and have worked the retrievers and helped out at hunts with my friends labs.

I haven't attended shows etc as I have a business and have to work full time flat out including weekends, I have a big passion for dogs and was exploring what I could do to spend more time with animals when I sell my Business.

Agreed, but they don’t do they. For many here it’s just hate all breeders, so it’s understandable that she won’t name her breeder on here.

I don’t get it. If it’s not for the money, then why do it at all? If you love dogs there’s lots of other things you could do instead.

I breed Ragdoll cats rather than dogs but imagine it’s similar. No one with a decent breeding female will sell you a breeding female without proving yourself first, the ones that do are not the ones you want as your foundation. Get to some shows, dog sports etc. learn all about your breed, the standards, health, research pedigrees and take some courses on selecting the right pairing. Doing this will get you known to some breeders along the way. Once you’ve done that ask one of the breeders to mentor you.

I was involved with Ragdoll’s 7 years before I got my first breeding female. It’s a long slog but it’s important you are prepared as if you’re not you risk losing pups and your female and you have a duty to them all that you do the absolute best possible for them.

I was reading thinking ‘no fucking way would I name the breeder!’

@Nessastats I don’t refer to breeding as ‘role’ or my dogs as a ‘pack’ so I can be as ‘patronising’ as I want, thanks.

As it is, I have mentored people when I have a litter - those interested in breeding - from about 3 weeks into the pups lives (you shouldn’t really have strangers earlier), and as it is…not a single one of the very experienced Goldie experts - people who have shown and be in the world for years - who came to my door wanting to get into breeding, lasted more than a week helping me. Why? Because it’s damn hard work - not a retirement plan.

Just because you love dogs, or have free time, or the ‘space’ or your bored is not a good enough reason. And for a lot of people, the reality - months of preparation, weeks of sleepness night, cleaning up feces and wee constantly to ensure your pups go home nearly house-trained, doing socialisation with them, taking them to the vets, feeding them, training them, all whilst looking after yourself and other dogs - does not live up to the ‘oh I can do this, it’s really easy’ delusion they have.

I was not kidding up-thread when I said 3-4hours sleep (and that’s not a block of sleep either) a night is what you have for weeks. Very few people can function on that anyway - let alone people just in it for the money whilst they have to be on the move constantly. Which is why so many pups are defective and so many breeders are able to churn out pups so often - because adequate care is not taken with the litters.

The fact OP didn’t even get her own dogs from a reputable and reliable breeder has told me all I need to know. Maybe I’ll be proven wrong, but I doubt it.

Because it costs about lot to breed a litter properly.
Even discounting the cost of buying and keeping the bitch herself (let's assume she's basically a pet, who is also shown or worked to a high standard) you have:
Health tests - hip and elbow scoring, genetic tests, eye checks
Stud fee - he will have been health checked, and shown or worked, and all of this costs money - and the cost of visiting the stud (someone I know has gone as far as Germany)
Cost of food and vet care for the bitch
Purchase of things like vet bed and a whelping box
Puppy food, registration costs, laundry and cleaning, wormer
Time spent checking out potential owners
If you work, holiday time or income forgone for the 24/7 care of the first few weeks, the time spent socialising the puppies and so on
Never mind the time spent researching and learning, helping friends with litters before breeding your own

And if, after all that, and the risk of being left with a large vet bill and no puppies if it all goes wrong, I have no problem with the breeder being a few grand in profit at the end of it.

And also, a lot breeders like to continue their own line. They love dogs, they enjoy their dogs, it's rewarding to see traits you've carefully bred for coming out in a new generation. A bloke I know doesn't breed any longer, but keeps an interested eye on the descendants of the dogs he bred - to the point that when I asked him about a possible future puppy, he could tell me what his dogs' descendants look like, what they do, and so on.

I don't breed, FWIW. But I know quite a lot of people who either have or who still do.

Good Lord, I'd not name who bred my dogs on here:
Potentially outing
Could expose the breeder to abuse
Could expose you to abuse once someone had gone and crawled all over the breeder's website, searched for info on them, and found some minor or imagined infraction of whatever ethical code the someone subscribes to or cooks up to beat other people with.

No chance AT ALL would I reveal so much as the county where I got my dogs.

You have money, and land. You could use your powers for good or evil.

Sorry to jump on this thread, but I’ve had a question rumbling for years that I’ve never asked and now feels like it might be an opportunity.

Why are breeders considered to be a good thing? I read on here ‘improving the breed’ what does that mean? Is it for shows? (In which case how is that good for a dog?)

I don’t understand why that’s considered superior to a cross breed / mongrel.

(this is based on my highly unscientific observation that dogs from reputable breeders often have health issues which mean that they can’t do ‘dog’ things and look depressed a lot)

@Hhoudini - read my AMA thread. The question is asked there and I answered it ☺️