How common, and socially acceptable, is it to breed from a pet dog in the UK?

[scam321]

I'm not trying to be controversial or goady - I'm asking this question out of curiosity and in good faith. I don't have a horse in this race as my girl is spayed (I also just wouldn't have the stomach for it). I'm not British and dog breeding is tightly regulated in my home country, so I'm very much coming at this from a naive outsider's perspective.

Since moving to the countryside (SW England) a few years ago, I have met several people who have had litters from their family pets - usually just the one. These dogs are loved and treated well, the breeding is done responsibly, new owners chosen carefully. My impression is that while these people like the extra cash, it's more of a bonus - they also see breeding as a rite of passage of sorts. While part of me still thinks, god, why would put your dog through that, I also can't criticise the way they've done it - at the end of the day, someone's gotta do it, and it might as well be them.

Previously - especially when I lived in a city - the narrative was always that "amateur" breeders were cruel, irresponsible, profiting off their dog's suffering, etc. Sadly I am well aware that breeders like this do exist and need to be stopped, but I suppose I've seen that there is another way and am no longer so black and white about it.

Nonetheless, this still seems to be a really controversial and divisive topic whenever it comes up - I have friends who are very, very anti. I'm struggling to understand what the broader sentiment is in the UK. Is it generally common and/or socially acceptable to have one litter from a family pet if it's done responsibly and lovingly? Or is it seen as deplorable?

Presumably the answer is somewhere in-between, or that there are different schools of thought.. I also assume there will be regional (country/city) differences and breed differences, but I'd be curious to hear people's opinions on this.

FWIW, I'm not trying to start a heated debate about the morality of breeding a pet - I'm more curious about what the public sentiment is in the UK, if that makes sense...

It's not that common but tends to be where people want to keep one of the pups. Only the fashionable breeds are about money

Utterly deplorable IMO, for one reason only: many of them have absolutely no idea how seriously wrong it can go and, even when warned, they press ahead anyway at great risk to their pet and often cut corners in veterinary care. They are selfish and greedy - nothing more, nothing less.

There was a poster recently (vet) who said she had to go out OOH once because a bitch had killed an entire litter. Could your average 'hobby or family' breeder cope with this? Almost certainly not - and if they can't they shouldn't be breeding.

No one I know would buy a pet from a 'family' breeder who has bred their bitch because she's 'pretty' or has a 'great personality' - they would want to know the puppy was the result of responsible breeding (i.e. good genetics, health test etc) and why that bitch had been breed from.

Doing all the above is expensive - if someone plans to have one litter from their bitch, then chances are they are cutting corners be that in veterinary care or in the whelping pen set up. It's also very difficult mentally and physically to take care of a litter of puppies properly - a 24/7 job for at least 8 weeks. So, you cannot have a job around it. You can't go out. You have no life. At least not if you're doing it properly - which they almost certainly aren't. You're not going to convince me these people are doing it 'for their dog, because it's got a lovely personality' given all the effort, blood, sweat and tears that goes into raising a litter of puppies.

That being said, it's far more common than it should be because there are far too many people who want a dog when they are not equipped/in a position to deal with one, and therefore cannot get one from a responsible breeder and so they'll go to the 'family' breeders. It should be banned.

So the type of breeding you describe isn’t hugely common. The breeding to make money and not checking health etc is more common or accidental litters. Neither of the second 2 are great. The way you describe is more socially acceptable.

I couldn't find it acceptable to breed when there are already too many dogs and too few good homes. It needs much tighter regulation in my opinion. If people only want one of the pups that they've bred it could leave half a dozen surplus to requirements.

My family have had horses and dogs for generations and it's always been said to never breed from your favourite animal as there is always a risk involved.

I have people tell me that they bred from their pet because he/ she was a good dog, with little regard to the health testing required nor the need to be responsible for the puppies welfare.
I have had people tell me they bred from their bitch to ‘let her be a mum’ .
I have had those same people try to sell me a puppy because they cannot find homes.

My Lab male was one of ten in his litter - from a breeder with one bitch and a long waiting list.
My lab bitch is a rescue from an accidental mating, and she had the shit start in life that legacy brought her. ( She is fab but has lasting skeletal problems as a result of that shit start.)

When my dog was a puppy the vet asked us why he wasn't neutered and we very naively answered "because we might want puppies" (I was early 20s, knew nothing about it and naively thought it was a bit like in humans, you "might want kids" when you're older). I got a big telling off for this and then went on to read about why the vet was so passionate about it and it was really eye opening. I don't think it's considered responsible at all.

There are far too many gorgeous dogs that have already been born that need good homes, so I think it's very irresponsible for people to be "home breeders", ie, backyard breeders.

In my experience, the "MN" view on this is absolutely nothing like people's RL view of it, lol.

Not saying I support it, but take what you read on here with a massive pinch of salt.

A friend tried it years ago with her gun dogs, she lost all but one, vets bills were enormous plus the cost of the stud dog and whelping set up - she never did it again!

I think there’s a big difference between a family letting their beloved dog have one litter and making sure they go to respectable safe homes and someone who breeds a dog again and again purely for the financial gain.

Only known one family to do this with pet lab.
I was shocked TBH as it’s not something I’ve come across before but they were celebrating that they got about 8k from the litter. Afraid my kneejerk negative response (“That’s a big litter for a first time”) triggered a lot of telling off and “know what we’re doing” so when they did it again 18mo later I didn’t raise an eyebrow.

The bitch smothered one of the pups but they still made another 7k - which was their priority.

They’re keeping a puppy to do the same in time.

My first Labrador, more than three decades ago, was from a pet breeder. Her bitch had two litters and the puppies were all gorgeous and healthy. I think it was more usual then. The last two Labs have come from breeders who work their dogs and have amazing set-ups. The spaniel came from a working pet home and it is still common with spaniels.

Now we know so much about heredity and genetics, it's expensive to get the tests done that any responsible buyer would require.

I think you’re on a fools errand trying to establish “broader sentiment” - you’ve already set out the different positions, lots of people will have each of those views.

I f*cking hated being pregnant and the delivery. I wouldn’t inflict it on one of my pets.

This is how we got our dog. His Mum is an incredibly loved (mixed) family dog who they bred with a KC registered dog. They adore the dog and did it to keep one of puppies. Both Mum dog they kept and the one they kept are very well cared for. They picked the new owners very carefully and sent a massive informal pack. We still share updates on a WhatsApp group. I asked if they were doing it again when we were thinking about another dog and they said they had absolutely no plans whatsoever and still haven't a couple of years later. Our dog is three quarters daschund and a quarter jack Russell which means they don't have such a risk of problems as with a pure bred daschund. Because they were very clear about the history we were confident that we weren't just getting a random mystery mix. We'd spent a year looking before that

I think it is much less socially acceptable than it used to be. My MIL had an over 50 year line of one breed, and was/is an expert in all of the health, genetics etc for that particular breed. Most of the pups were kept as pets, with some going to semi-working gun dog homes.

I realised when I met her that things had changed a lot from my childhood where friends' dogs often had puppies (country/farming communities): MIL took it all extremely seriously, as a 24/7 job, including several weeks sleeping in the kitchen with pups (MIL in her 70s by this point!) Even though she loved it, she stopped when she knew she couldn't physically put in the effort required.

She didn't do it for the money but for the enjoyment of the particular breed and a passion for ensuring that healthy dogs were born, and I think she would agree that attitudes have changed: she was certainly very fierce about selecting the right sources for our DDogs.

Edited to add that the breeder of one of my dogs put a restriction on her registration to state that I couldn't breed without her permission, which would mean that if I did, her pups could not be KC registered, so couldn't be sold at a premium. She said it was one of the few ways to prevent irresponsible home breeding.

I think anyone who wants to breed a pet shouldn’t be allowed to have one.

And that includes all the irresponsible idiots who can’t be arsed to spay or neuter their cats.

I’ve wondered about this as well. Might I add to the specificity of the question in an attempt to gauge general sentiment?

are people allowed to post litters on social media, neighborhood groups, and that sort of thing, either for “good homes” or “for sale”? Or are those posts immediately reported and removed because advertising puppies is against the rules?

They do it to make easy, tax free, non declarable money that they perceive that they don't have to lift a finger for. .

No other reason.

On all my local Facebook groups it’s against the rules. You have no way of knowing if people who want to take them would actually give them good homes.

I volunteer for a (mainly) cat rescue and we’re overflowing with unwanted and abandoned kittens. Then the irresponsible halfwits who didn’t spay their cats get angry when we don’t have any space left.

Here is my story:
I've bred my pet dog, not because I saw it as a right of passage or a way of making money (that came later) but because I saw a gap in the market.
The breed of dog I chose to have as a family pet, isn't really seen as such in the UK- but, they make fantastic loyal fun pets if raised in the right environment.
There were quite a few breeders, but they did so for showing. Dogs are often kept in kennels and puppies are also raised in kennels. Often they had more than one litter at the time...
Others, who had a home setting, were reluctant to give me a puppy due to small DC- I have extensive dog experience, but was for obvious reasons declined by rescue centres. Hence going for a breed puppy- the fact that we chose an unusual breed was probably due to a big list of must have and absolutely not in terms of characteristics and temperament.

I eventually purchased our lovely girl after over 2 years of being refused a puppy.

We did our homework, we showed her - were she did OK but was never highly placed as not from a prominent show kennel. (It seems always the same dogs / kennels that win the top prizes)
Anyway, we did all health tests and found out that her estimated breeding value was really high, good hip scores, low inbreeding, ...

Fast forward to now, we stopped the showing and only do the breeding.
Yes, maybe we should show, but I don't agree with it and some of the ridiculous breed standards. In simple terms it's a beauty pageant.
I never have more than one litter at a time. I like to take my time and give all dogs what they need. It's exhausting! I know why puppy farming is so popular or simply raising & keeping dogs in kennels!
I also re home some girls after breeding, sometimes I re home at 9- 18 months because health tests aren't good or I don't feel they have what it tatakesBut, there is always one, that will stay for life!
On top of that, I own the stud dog - he's never been shown, but is an import simply because the UK population has high inbreedding. I didn't own a boy to start with, but driving up and down the country with a bitch ready to be mated is no fun.

I see raising puppies as a labour of love, but also as a small business that has to generate an income.

I think MN would classify me as a Backyard Breeder. But I don't care.

I'm still in touch with many of my puppy buyers and some re homed bitches. I only breed for the pet market and my dogs are my pets. They live in my house, sleep on the furniture and go for Sunday afternoon walks.

Not breeding from pets will reduce the breeding stock and gene pool massively. Inbreeding will rear it's ugly head and puppy buyers will have to be even more vigilant when it comes to health testing.

But it's ok I guess, as long as the Kennel Club and media are able to sell us deformed, unhealthy dogs as cute.

I would always prefer to buy from someone who bred thief pet once, rather than a breeder who only has dogs to breed from

It's funny because when we bought our current dog the breeder advised that we should let her have a litter as it's good for her!
My background is working with dogs in various forms so I know the dangers and also the time and cost involved in doing it properly.
People who didn't know though may believe that it is in the dogs best interest.
I guess the financial gain makes it very appealable considering the price of puppies these days!

I’m nearly 60 owned dogs all my life all mine have come from very reputable breed knowledgable breeders, they have had the necessary breed health checks, their parents usually with a proven success in the show ring, all have lived long healthy lives and have had excellent temperaments. I also know that I have life long backup from the breeder and signed a contract stating that in the event of my not being able to keep the dog I would return it to them. One was a full brother to a crufts champion and is considered to be an excellent although unshown example of the breed. I’ve never bred puppy I don’t have the time or the knowledge I let those who have both do it for me. Should I ever retire Im thinking of do some showing and if successful and I feel I know enough about the breed I might breed a litter although I doubt it.
In contrast all my friends with dogs have got them from people who’ve bred from a much loved family pet. Personally I wouldn’t do it but it has to be said they also have healthy dogs with excellent temperaments, although no life time support/return the dog to the breeder, interestingly their puppies were no cheaper than mine have been so I don’t really see the advantage except that usually the puppies have been bred very locally unlike my current dog who came from 450 miles away.