How common, and socially acceptable, is it to breed from a pet dog in the UK?

[scam321]

I'm not trying to be controversial or goady - I'm asking this question out of curiosity and in good faith. I don't have a horse in this race as my girl is spayed (I also just wouldn't have the stomach for it). I'm not British and dog breeding is tightly regulated in my home country, so I'm very much coming at this from a naive outsider's perspective.

Since moving to the countryside (SW England) a few years ago, I have met several people who have had litters from their family pets - usually just the one. These dogs are loved and treated well, the breeding is done responsibly, new owners chosen carefully. My impression is that while these people like the extra cash, it's more of a bonus - they also see breeding as a rite of passage of sorts. While part of me still thinks, god, why would put your dog through that, I also can't criticise the way they've done it - at the end of the day, someone's gotta do it, and it might as well be them.

Previously - especially when I lived in a city - the narrative was always that "amateur" breeders were cruel, irresponsible, profiting off their dog's suffering, etc. Sadly I am well aware that breeders like this do exist and need to be stopped, but I suppose I've seen that there is another way and am no longer so black and white about it.

Nonetheless, this still seems to be a really controversial and divisive topic whenever it comes up - I have friends who are very, very anti. I'm struggling to understand what the broader sentiment is in the UK. Is it generally common and/or socially acceptable to have one litter from a family pet if it's done responsibly and lovingly? Or is it seen as deplorable?

Presumably the answer is somewhere in-between, or that there are different schools of thought.. I also assume there will be regional (country/city) differences and breed differences, but I'd be curious to hear people's opinions on this.

Yup. Two of my late mum's cats and two of mine have been abandoned kittens from the same feckless family. Even after the RSPCA took half their cats.

Sometimes the proper ,reputable kc reg breeders are people who have bred their family pets. Albeit ones who've become experiences in doing it .

Some people do just want to do it for the money ,especially if they have a desirable breed . Also, I've found people breed their family dog in order to get their next puppy.

And some are accidental litters, like my dog was, and the pups are sold.

I don't agree all 5 puppies went to good homes and actually 6 were booked before bitch got pregnant but bitch had 5 puppies.

Funny how the non-goady, genuinely interested OP hasn't been back.

The way I feel is best summed up by Nicole Kidman's character, Sue Brierley, in Lion: "We both felt as if... the world has enough people in it. Have a child, couldn't guarantee it will make anything better. But to take a child that's suffering like you boys were. Give you a chance in the world. That's something."

That's how I feel about dogs (given the situation as it is now) and as it happens children. I realise adopting is not for everyone - I never did adopt children - and I'm sure there's a bit of saviour syndrome at play, but given the choice of doing something good for somebody already here rather than creating new life, then I'd always go for the former.

Our daughter has a pedigree. Won’t breed because dog is tiny and our daughter is worried that it would harm her.

Of course it was a goady thread 🙄 They knew how it would end up because dog threads on MN always go the same way.

I won't adopt a rescue dog, for several reasons.

I've had 8 of the same breed but we've never bred a litter, nor will we with our current female pup.

I hope she won't change her mind. Having a pedigree isn't a good enough reason to breed - there are a lot of purebred dogs in rescue.

Can I ask, when people say they breed once so "their dog can be a mum", what is this about?

I get the impression from those who say it that it's like it's a physiologically good thing for mum, it's her purpose, it's cruel not to just once.

I don't get it?'

There are so many dogs in shelters, looking for homes, even fashionable or desirable breeds. I was shocked when looking for a dog after our boy died how many collies were languishing in shelters.

Two anecdotal points - my cousin breeds dogs. She's not very bright and it seems to be an 'easy' way of making money. She doesn't seem to grasp the fact that she sometimes has to 'donate' them to a shelter as morally wrong.

Second point is friend (intelligent?) has a male and a female dog and has had two "surprise" pregnancies. She did find homes for all the pups and doubtless the money was a factor in why she didn't get either of her dogs neutered. But those homes could've taken in shelter dogs instead.
So I think home breeding is wrong, immoral and irresponsible.

Me neither. It's ridiculous. Your dog is not a person. You sell them after 8 weeks anyway and take them away from the mother? Only breed if you're going to keep all the puppies.

Ok another thick question - why is it bad to have two pups from same litter?

It's not about your dogs.
Actually, it IS about my dogs - as well as other dogs. My dogs are part of this equation.

Are you saying that I shouldn't be allowed to have dogs because some dogs have terrible lives? I know what sort of lives both of my dogs' dams have - great lives, in both cases. I'm FB friends with the owner of one of the studs, and he has a great life too. The other stud worked under falcons: a great life for this breed. Most of my dogs' siblings went to working homes.

I think that the less people have to do with other animals the better. I imagine that your dog is a rescue, and you obviously enjoy having a dog. Do you genuinely want to deprive future generations of the pleasure of owning dogs, because some people cock it up? Should children not be born because some parents really bugger up the job of raising children? Should we not have cars because some people drive like lunatics and kill other people? Should people not go birdwatching, because some of them will disturb birds who are feeding or raising young?

I do not understand the attitude that if something cannot be perfect, it shouldn't happen. The world isn't perfect. We can do our best to make it better, but I don't think that separating dogs from people is going to achieve that.

That's what people always say, it doesn't make it true. Cool. Impugn my honesty. Feel free. Not a great way of convincing me of your good faith.

See upthread - littermate syndrome.
It can be avoided, but takes real dedication on the part of the owners.

@EdithStourton
I am not here to convince you of anything. I wouldn't have a chance of doing so in any case. Sometime you are not on the same page as someone and sometimes you are different books.
But I think we should all do more to act for the greater good rather than in our own selfish interests and that includes our attitudes towards dog ownership.

They're just trying to justify it. There is no biological reason why a bitch needs to be bred.
I've had 4 purebred bitches from champion bloodlines, I could have made a fair bit of money breeding them but I didn't. Three of them lived to a good age despite never being a mum - the fourth one is still a pup but she won't be bred either.

That's another reason why we didn't breed our girls. When we got our first bitch we knew that if she had 10 puppies I'd get too attached and wouldn't be able to part with them... 12 giant breed dogs in a 3 bed semi didn't seem like a sensible idea somehow😆

OP - if you do come back to this, do you live in a rural area with farming communities? They tend to view animals a bit differently as a community, even if the people breeding dogs aren’t running livestock farms themselves.

Is that the only reason she hasn't? Does she otherwise think that just because a dog is pedigree it must have puppies?

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2536673-Genuinely-dont-know-who-is-being-unreasonable-here-Puppy-relate

I deleted that account, but this is my thread from years ago.

I kept the pup. But the breeder and thousands like her are deplorable. Nice little money spinner.

Responsible breeding is expensive and HARD. And there are so so many dogs put down because there just aren't enough homes for them. And far more neglected or miserable in dog rescues-however hard the wonderful people who work/volunteer there work to keep the dogs happy, they deserve a home. I despise breeders.

Some people on that thread said that I did the wrong thing, encouraging the breeder by rescuing the puppy. No regrets however, she's amazing. I shudder when someone asks me if I'd breed from her (and I've even been stopped in the street by people asking if I will breed her with their dog).

I have lost friends because I am clear on my views-when they've said they're going to breed/stud out their dog.

My friend says this. I think he feels that it is an experience a female dog 'deserves' to have. I just shut him down with the 'too many homeless dogs already ' line. My dog is perfectly happy.

People claim because of littermate syndrome (I.e the dogs bond to each other not the owner and can be aggressive to other dogs). Usually happens because it’s done by irresponsible breeders to people who shouldn’t have been given one let alone two puppies.

IMO and Experiences it’s an over simplification of a far more complicated issue (poor training and pet ownership).

If you know what you are doing and have a genuine need or the breeder is desperate (as she was in my case), it’s possible to do it well - you just have to be experienced with that breed. My parents did it with two German Shepherds. Never had an issue with the dogs. Why? Because they’re capable owners with decades of experience with the breed.

the dogs being put down because there’s not enough homes comments - it’s worth noting often the homes available for puppies being purchased would not be suitable for the dogs in shelters.

we would have preferred to adopt rather than shop for our dog, but when we got her, our youngest child was 8. No shelter in our county had a dog that they felt was suitable to go to a family with children under 13 for over a year of us being in contact with them all.

They had dogs who needed homes, but the right homes. No kids, no kids visiting regularly (so no grandchildren), at least one person at home all day, fenced large garden, fit and healthy owner, no other animals, experienced owners who know how to handle scared, mistreated dogs or dogs who have got to adulthood with no/minimal training.

the shelters near us are full of dogs who need a home but can’t be a family pet. Sadly those people are thin on the ground.

I understand that. And I do feel some rescues are just too finickity too about certain things e.g. my friend bought a dog because rescues wouldn't let the dog go to a home where both adults worked full-time. My friend said she would take three weeks off to bond with the dog, still a no. My friend's dog gets dropped off at her Mum's on the way to work, she goes to her Mum's and picks dog up after work. She explained this plan to the rescue but they wouldn't have it, not because of no suitable dogs, but because red tape.

Still, it is true that there are many, many dogs PTS and It's a tragedy. A lot pf people buy dogs for the wrong reasons, when they could rescue. Single people, people without children, people who have the time but just do not want to put any work in and buying is easier. Not saying everyone, or that you are in that category.

Also I was refused rescue because my fences aren't high enough. They are high, X DPS escape artist husky couldn't get over them (believe me he tried!) and I also wouldn't leave a rescue outside unsupervised. But still a no.

We couldn't adopt a kitten with two acres of land in case it got lost or went over the Drystone walls. But could we please take in feral cats in our barn 🙄