How common, and socially acceptable, is it to breed from a pet dog in the UK?

[scam321]

I'm not trying to be controversial or goady - I'm asking this question out of curiosity and in good faith. I don't have a horse in this race as my girl is spayed (I also just wouldn't have the stomach for it). I'm not British and dog breeding is tightly regulated in my home country, so I'm very much coming at this from a naive outsider's perspective.

Since moving to the countryside (SW England) a few years ago, I have met several people who have had litters from their family pets - usually just the one. These dogs are loved and treated well, the breeding is done responsibly, new owners chosen carefully. My impression is that while these people like the extra cash, it's more of a bonus - they also see breeding as a rite of passage of sorts. While part of me still thinks, god, why would put your dog through that, I also can't criticise the way they've done it - at the end of the day, someone's gotta do it, and it might as well be them.

Previously - especially when I lived in a city - the narrative was always that "amateur" breeders were cruel, irresponsible, profiting off their dog's suffering, etc. Sadly I am well aware that breeders like this do exist and need to be stopped, but I suppose I've seen that there is another way and am no longer so black and white about it.

Nonetheless, this still seems to be a really controversial and divisive topic whenever it comes up - I have friends who are very, very anti. I'm struggling to understand what the broader sentiment is in the UK. Is it generally common and/or socially acceptable to have one litter from a family pet if it's done responsibly and lovingly? Or is it seen as deplorable?

Presumably the answer is somewhere in-between, or that there are different schools of thought.. I also assume there will be regional (country/city) differences and breed differences, but I'd be curious to hear people's opinions on this.

@PoliticalPossum I don't have a Labrador - I was just using them as an example.

However, I didn't go to a "proper" breeder because all the ones I saw were too business like for me - they either had multiple breeding bitches and too much focus on looking good in the show ring, or they were breeding full-on working dogs which isn't what I wanted either.

Our Labrador was from a 'home breeder', but working dogs, KC registered, carefully chosen stud, all health checks relevant for the breed and hip and elbow scores. I far prefer this setup over a commercial breeder. Two of my dogs siblings went into the guide dogs training program, one is a sniffer dog for the police.

People who live rurally literally were not allowed to adopt rescues during Covid travel restrictions. That's probably got to have influenced the increase in pet breeding and it's carried on.
However working dogs of all sorts have always been home bred by farmers etc who don't necessarily need to show and aren't interested in KC registration. That's how we got our dog and I can safely say that both his parents have lovely lives, he was vet checked and we can all see each other regularly. He's bonkers, but unlike all the poo breeds who came from puppy farms, I know there was no abuse involved.

at the end of the day, someone's gotta do it, and it might as well be them.

...Does someone have to do it? Why? 😕

I'm largely not in favour because I don't think most people who breed from a pet bitch are clued up enough about genetics and health testing. In many cases it is done for the wrong reasons; either a mawkish sentimentality about having a puppy from darling little Fifi or it's just purely for money.

However, like most things, it isn't that simple, and there are always going to be exceptions. Some puppies bred from pet bitches do come with full health checks and a high level of commitment from the breeder, but those will be very much in the minority.

As to whether it's socially acceptable, well that depends on your perspective. Some people feel it isn't socially acceptable to buy a puppy at all, regardless of where it comes from, others feel that is okay provided you do your research and avoid puppy farm/backyard breeder.

The problem with threads like this is that the OP always denies being controversial or goady but knows bloody well that it will cause friction. It always ends up being about adopt don't shop/rescuing dogs from abroad vs hatred of designer crossbreeds and anyone with a pedigree dog being labelled as cruel and uncaring. That seems to be the nature of dog threads here.

That question has been answered already. You may or may not agree with the answers.

I think it depends on the owner and the general impression they give. Two dogs at my local park had litters last year and the attitudes were very different.

One has a very well trained spaniel, runs gun dog training, husband hunts with the dog, they are in a network of people with dogs from certain lines and just come across as knowing a lot about dogs. They kept one from the litter as well. People appear to approve, are enthusiastic about the puppies.

Another just got a female dog as a friend for their male dog and is acting like the litter is some sort of love story. The general consensus is that he is a complete tool and his poor female dog.

Let's be honest, vast majority of people just want a pet and a companion - they're not interested in going to agility every week or owning a dog who needs hours of exercise and stimulation before it will settle down in the evenings.

They're not fussed about showing or whether their dogs' great-great grandmother was a champion at Crufts - they just want a dog who is happy and healthy and has a good temperament so that it can be around their children or grandchildren without needing a crate or a gate.

All this talk about champion show lines or breeders who endorse their puppies just puts people off and encourages them to go elsewhere - the same with rescues who can't seem to think outside the box and never consider a home where the dog may be left fine hours instead of four, or where an owner might get their relatives to look after the dog once a week while they work.

I looked into KC breeders for our breed and it was actually quite off-putting and made me feel like I'd never be good enough to apply, so why bother?

Breeding should be for preserving the temperament and health of a line of dogs beit mixed or pedigree. It doesn't matter if pet or not (aren't most dogs pets? My pups's mum is a much loved and cherished pet)

Accidental litters need not happen as there are both anti mate injections and emergency spay operations available. Unless there is a medical need not to then anyone who says otherwise is lying.

@EdithStourton
It's not about your dogs. They may well be happy and bring you joy and have minimal impact on the environment and so on. It's about their parents, their siblings and more so about the fact that many dogs suffer due to being owned by people. God knows I haven't always got it right myself, not by a long way. I think that the less people have to do with other animals the better. And I say that as I'm sat here typing with one hand, my other being employed as a dog chest tickler.

An article from the Telegraph popped up on MSN today. Its headline reads:
"I’m a vet, but I can’t face putting down another healthy animal"
If the animal isn't created, then no one has to go through this. Not the vet, not the owner (who in at least some cases will find it difficult) and most of all not the animal who would have been fairly unlikely to have had a great life up until that point.
The article is taken from a book written by a vet so is clearly biased but I think anyone who has a pet will be aware of what has happened to the veterinary industry in recent years and how it's not always easy to get good care for pets.

Oddly, my mind is open to being changed. I doubt I'd change it on this topic, but I'd never say never. That's what people always say, it doesn't make it true.

As for it not mattering how dogs evolved, I think it does. We've been tied up with them for millennia. Co-existing with dogs is a part of being human. Change is or can be a good thing and I think in this case it would indeed be exactly that.

If pet owners don't breed the odd litter won't that mean that breeders will make their dogs have litter after litter to meet the demand for pets? That sounds cruel.

Only one lot of pups because breeder knows a friend of mine who lives in her small village. I got 2 litter mates and they went to separate puppy training classes and got taken out separately for walks when they were young. They are attached to each other but both very attached to DH and I.

The pups went to separate puppy training classes and we're walked separately until about 8 or 9 months. They are attached to each other but very attached to DH and I. They get on well together. We have had no issues with either of them and they are 6 years old now.

@caringcarer your breeder was still incredibly irresponsible.

It's not that simple.

It depends what you mean by "breeders" because someone breeding their pet is, in effect, a "breeder" but so is a backyard breeder and there isn't always a lot of difference. Backyard breeders and puppy farmers just breed dogs repeatedly anyway and will continue to do so.

Reputable breeders health check their stock, don't overbreed their bitches and generally plan matings months (if not years) in advance, so no, the demise of "pet breeders" would not affect that. It's a totally different market.

Thus, in effect you could say the less pet dogs bred the less dogs in rescue, but that would be dependent on people being educated into not buying from puppy farmers and that, in essence, is the issue.

Agree.

Shelters are full to bursting and having to put healthy dogs down to make space.

But idiots Dave and Denise are breeding their French bulldogs cos they are so "cute".
Forgetting they are highly likely to need a CSection and big risks attached to the whole process.

It's irresponsible as fuck and I loathe people who do it.

Ps I know lots of rural folk who used to think that having one litter would "calm down" a working bitch with lots of energy. Now that view is changing somewhat thank goodness and there's less breeding happening now. Although there's always spare collies around here for anyone who wants one as a "pet" as they have turned out to be not great at working/herding.

Can i ask a question? What is the problem with two puppies from the same litter? I genuinely don't know the answer to that.

We rehomed two dogs years ago and they were from the same litter. A boy and a girl, we got them when they were 6. I genuinely didn't know it was a problem?

@itsnotabouthepasta have a read up on littermate syndrome ☺️

There's no guarantee it'll happen and many people do manage to avoid it, but generally when it does kick in, the only solution is to permanently separate the dogs.

@coffeesaveslives oh wow, I never knew that! You learn something everyday!

Our two old dogs were from the same litter. The bitch definitely relied on her brother - she was quite shy and liked to hide behind him, and he definitely was overprotective towards her, but that almost went away once we had him neutered.

There are far too many gorgeous dogs that have already been born that need good homes, so I think it's very irresponsible for people to be "home breeders"

And yet if I want to give such a dog a home, I would be declined.

DC under 6 or 10 means no dog.
I work PT so out of the house 4-5 hours Mon-Fr- no dog
I have a small paved garden- no dog
I would like my dog not to be the size of a greyhound or have the strength & reputation of a Staffie. - no dog.
I would like my dog to be friendly with other dogs- no dog

...and so on. As I said earlier, I've been there.

@itsnotabouthepasta It depends on the temperament of the puppies. How sociable and tolerant the adult dogs are with other dogs and so on.
Dogs are pack animals, so if done right, they will love having a friend of their own species.

It's also important to take them on separate walks, separate training sessions and so on. So they can build independence and confidence.

Rubbish. If they are sold to someone knowledge about the breed and experienced this is absolutely fine. The only reason it’s a problem is because of LMS which, as with ‘rage’ in spaniels is mythical nonsense used by people who have no understanding of puppy rearing, animal behaviour or genetics.

I’ve had littermates. My parents currently have two GSDs which are littermates

I understand exactly where you are coming from. And maybe I have known a very odd selection of people who have bred pets (as opposed to working dogs), but they have all been very caring, had a good relationship with the local vet and been careful about where the puppies went. Most of them have been aware of the importance of health tests and acted accordingly.

Yes, there are people who are breed Fluffy because they see £££, but there are a lot of people who are far more responsible than that.

ETA, I have no skin this game. I have working-line dogs and would only ever breed one if she was proven in work and ideally in tests or trials, had a good hip score, had very good conformation, was bred to a stud with full tests for any recessive genetic issues common in the breed and a good history in work, and if both dam and stud had excellent temperaments.

Shelters are full to bursting and having to put healthy dogs down to make space.

They are - but let's be honest, the people who are buying from the backyard breeders you describe are not the same people who are going to rush to adopt a rescue dog - they're two very different markets.

I follow multiple rescues on Facebook and their criteria (rightly or wrongly) mean that very few people are able to adopt from them. We couldn't even apply at our local rescues as we both worked, even though DH's dad was able and willing to care for the dog for the few hours a week it was needed.

So we got a puppy - FIL dotes on him and he has a wonderful, happy life and has never had any health issues. He's great with our cats, is impeccably behaved with children, is almost never left alone and gets plenty of exercise - yet he came from a dreaded "pet breeder" because rescues wouldn't touch us with a barge pole.

None of the dogs in our local rescue are without challenges and I think only one can live with children under 13. And while that might be the right thing for those particular dogs, it does mean most families who want a dog will go to a breeder.

@EdithStourton yes, our dog came from a breeder like you describe - the puppies were all health tested, everyone is still in touch and the breeder still offers advice if anyone needs it. Our vet regularly comments on how healthy he is too.

There's definitely a middle ground between dogs from champion breeders and dogs from filthy kennels somewhere.

@PoliticalPossum I can't agree with you I'm afraid 🤷‍♀️ there's no good reason for someone to sell littermates.